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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 20:09:32 GMT
eek, i never thought i'd start a topic! but this is something that's been on my mind for a while now, and some of the other threads in this board have given me some really helpful insight, so i figured why not ask? i'm curious about what everyone thinks of activity checks. i'm not asking whether you think a site's better or worse off with or without them, more so what your opinion and personal experience with them has been. i've always had the belief that if writers want to write, they'll write, but at the same time, sometimes a deadline is exactly what i need to give me a needed push...
so, admins, do they work for you? or are they an archaic waste of time? if so, do you have an alternative? and members, do you shy away from sites with activity checks? or do they help keep you on track?
i'm honestly not sure what my own opinion on this is and i'm asking because i'm trying to find a good balance for the next site i run (one day in the far future when i once again have that kind of time) as this has always been a tough area for me to figure out and i've yet to find something that works.
any input is appreciated! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 20:43:30 GMT
To be honest, this is a great discussion point, and I'm surprised no one brought it up until now. In the meantime, I'll just add my two cents into it.
Activity Checks are fine and good, super helpful with weeding out flakers. At the same time, they act as a double-edged sword, yes? While it weeds out that, it has the potential to bring back people that haven't been active. I had the issue with someone who created a character, posted a bit, then disappeared off the face of the earth, only to come back during activity check time. And it's not like you can say no to them cause they technically met the requirement.
However, I believe activity checks can be redundant in the sense that if you're staff, you know who's active in your site's community, you know? The regular faces, the in-the-shadows-but-still-post kids, excitable newbies... You know who's sticking around pretty much, right? So if you know that, doesn't an activity check seem like a waste of time? Like sure, people can take unexpected hiatuses, but that's why it's easy to mark accounts as inactive, and then worry from there. Keep their claims in reserve for a couple weeks, and if you hear nothing back, then you can judge from there, right?
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Post by forte on Oct 2, 2018 22:04:24 GMT
To be honest, this is a great discussion point, and I'm surprised no one brought it up until now. In the meantime, I'll just add my two cents into it. Activity Checks are fine and good, super helpful with weeding out flakers. At the same time, they act as a double-edged sword, yes? While it weeds out that, it has the potential to bring back people that haven't been active. I had the issue with someone who created a character, posted a bit, then disappeared off the face of the earth, only to come back during activity check time. And it's not like you can say no to them cause they technically met the requirement. However, I believe activity checks can be redundant in the sense that if you're staff, you know who's active in your site's community, you know? The regular faces, the in-the-shadows-but-still-post kids, excitable newbies... You know who's sticking around pretty much, right? So if you know that, doesn't an activity check seem like a waste of time? Like sure, people can take unexpected hiatuses, but that's why it's easy to mark accounts as inactive, and then worry from there. Keep their claims in reserve for a couple weeks, and if you hear nothing back, then you can judge from there, right? I am in 1000% agreement with this on a conceptual level; it should work like this. However, the reason why I continue to do activity checks is mostly so people don't try to put up a fit if they come back to see that their account has been labeled inactive and the fc they had been using taken by someone else. With ACs, I can at least be like, "Hey, we hold everyone to this same standard and you had a whole week's notice to post in this one thread, but you didn't and that's the way the cookie crumbles." So for me, it's sort of like... liability insurance, in a way? It's less of a "decision on my part" and more of "this is just how it works." |
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Post by Kitten4u on Oct 2, 2018 22:09:50 GMT
I am largely indifferent. They don't tend to affect me because I'm either posting all over the place all the time, or fading out from your community because I don't feel like I fit in. There really is no in between. I just get a little annoyed when I have to go look for threads to post in them because I am lazy. This is doubly so if they like, require a specific format or template.
Going to talk a little bit about how I do them just because I feel like it's still relevant to the thread. I just do a roll call. People PM me, give me a list of their characters, and let me know they're still interested. That's it, no posts required. If you're still around, interested, and checking the site, then stuff like this is pretty easy to do and it requires just enough effort to me to prove interest. Because the way I see it, if people aren't posting because writer's block, too much going on in real life, or whatever, then the last thing they need is a deadline or additional stress about getting another post out.
So that's my two cents. I prefer roll call over making people have IC posts because RP is a hobby and forcing people to do things in a hobby when they don't want to isn't fun and defeats the purpose of engaging in the hobby. If they're hoarding claims, holding people up, or otherwise doing things you don't want, there's other ways to handle them without hurting the rest of your community.
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Post by pixie pie on Oct 2, 2018 22:15:30 GMT
I use activity checks as an excuse to get rid of the those who flake out or leave without letting us know. I know you left - you disappeared from the discord and haven't logged in for forever - but I have to stick to the activity rules and give you the chance of saying "Hey, I'm here!" and if you do - then I'll let it go but again - it is just my way of weeding out those who have left but didn't really delete their accounts.
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Post by Kuroya on Oct 3, 2018 1:28:38 GMT
honestly, i'm in a bit of the same boat as forte. like. you've not logged in for two weeks with no hiatus notice up, i can almost definitely tell you're not interested in the site anymore (or imo you've decided to not even give anyone a heads up that you're not going to be around for two weeks, which, rude). or you've had a hiatus up for a month and you've not even bothered to check in with anyone, you're probably not really interested in the site anymore. but, that all being said, my entire soul is not here to deal with the people who would complain about being archived under a system with no requirements, so an activity check really mostly functions to cover my rear. don't get me wrong, i still find it is it frustrating as all heck watching people get notifications for activity checks and then rushing to save their characters where they otherwise wouldn't have cared. activity check week has very quickly turned into one of the most stressful of the month simply because there's always so much more activity during that week than there is at any other time of the month because people are concerned with saving their characters. i'd still take that sighing into the abyss over just having no real policy. and i say that where i used to be a huge supporter of check-ins over actual checks. but honestly, i've come away from that view just because i've seen that system abused so often, with some characters just not getting posted on for months and months on end then sliding through checks just because their player is still around and posting on other characters, and like.... imo, hot take, letting an "active" member hold a character for six months without posting on them is no less "hogging" the claims than it would be to keep around claims from someone who ghosted six months ago. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that all characters and all members are going to be as active as each other - i'm not. what i'm saying is that pure check-in systems do not work just because you always end up with "that guy" who takes advantage of the system and sits on popular claims but is technically active. and yes, "that guy" exists on non-check-in sites too but imo at least having a bottom boundary keeps them from just. not posting twice a year. personally, i'm really happy with the system we have now - one post per month per character is the expected requirement; you post in the monthly check to account for all your characters and things; and if you don't have the post you need but you've still checked in, you get placed on inactive status that you can get sorted out from if you post once and has no other punishment aside from "if someone asks us to clear this claim in the meantime, you get cleared" and "if you go on inactive status 3 times in a six month period, you get cleared since by that point you're obviously barely scraping by under the system." hiatuses obviously can excuse you (you aren't automatically excused though if it's not posted before the check since nothing drives me up the wall faster than someone posting a hiatus during a check and then ignoring the actual check and expecting to be safe because they didn't take the extra 5 minutes to check in), and we do obviously allow some buffer for newly approved characters and new registers even if i end up clearing them next check. i don't feel bad about that standard since most of the sites in the genre (marvel + dc) and in real life are either no-standard sites or require at least one post every other week per character, so we're fairly low-stress, all things considered. i don't feel bad about implementing that for link cable too since imo you can use your quest or wild threads too, so you have options beyond "i can't post because none of my partners have posted." it's low-stress stuff that you should be doing anyway and it's something that is fairly easy to do consistently through the regular process of being active on the site. different setups work better for different sites and honestly, i generally don't have a problem with most activity checks overall (i might politely decline joining a site based on the activity policy that i'm not 1000% sure i can keep up with, but that's not the site itself as much as it is me) as long as the staff aren't getting special treatment in sliding through them where normal members wouldn't. just because, at the end of the day, if the staff can't respect their own activity standards, why should i (or any of the members) respect them either, y'know?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 1:35:05 GMT
I personally have never had an issue with activity checks myself because as long as i have stuff to reply to i meet most standard requirements with ease.
However they seem to be a double edged sword since it's easy for life to get in the way and some don't like the pressure of having the requirement over their head and it hinders them from replying like they want to because they feel forced to do something. however it's hard to forego completely some manner of activity check because it makes weeding out flakes and goners something official rather than something happening in the shadows. the current manner of doing them just makes the weeding out of old news people more comfortable because the manner in which it's done is right there for all to know and you can't pull a fast one on your staff team because the rules are right there.
I feel like depending on th type of site you're running it can still be useful to have requirements and check ins. If it's slice of life style something like a 'who's still here' is probably more fitting because it's meant to be more lax. Something heavily plot driven hat requires high activity to progress may still want to uphold an activity standard to keep things rolling. It's all about what you're looking for in the community and the sort of people you wish to attract. If you want a more intense site a high activity requirement would probably be the way to go, if you're trying to stay out of the passing lane and enjoy the ride then something super lax is probably for the better.
activity requirement or assessments can also be done in more than just having people post with links to their monthly posts though. The site i staff on recently switched to a more behind the scene style where we make weekly checks to see how long it's been since a character was posted with. If we find one that hasn't done anything for 3 weeks we notify the player and they have 1 week to post with them. If they don't then we deactivate the character and notify them again. We have it written into the rule as well that if we see trends and are doing this a lot with certain characters we will be including that sort of concern in their messages about activity. It makes the assessment more about what people are actively doing and less about what they have done while also making the matter a little more private and easier to have legit concerns handled between the member and a staffer in case there's a bigger problem going on. It was also in response to our members feeling full on post requirements were over bearing and since we're a semi-plot driven site we're hoping it'll work better to facilitate activity than not.
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Post by anubis on Oct 3, 2018 8:32:53 GMT
i one-hundred percent agree with them. they give you the only clear and concise way to determine members activity. sure, i can look at an account and say it hasn't posted in a month. but to delete that character or archive their stuff is a waste of time if they're still technically considered active, especially because i've seen members come back.
secondly, i also don't believe in turning someones account 'inactive' once you know they're gone for good. trying to make it appear as if you have more active members than you actually do, all in an attempt to get more people to join your site is manipulation at it's finest. trust me, when they join a discord where only 6 people are really talking.
they know.
with that said, i believe it's a good way to reward active & loyal members as well, and are more useful when done every few months or so.
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Post by 「イオタ」 on Oct 3, 2018 12:15:09 GMT
At every site I staffed at, activity checks were abused. People who were never active would come in, throw up an open thread they didn't intend on replying to or post to other ongoing threads (only the amount that's required for the AC, mind you), and then poof for another month or two until the next activity check. Rinse and repeat. I don't think it's very fair to others to behave like that and it certainly doesn't help a site live.
I go behind the scenes and check which accounts haven't posted in X amount of time and then archive them, sending them a PM that they were archived. When they're ready to come back, they just let me know and I resort their accounts (unless there were big site changes then their apps might need to be freshened up). It's a lot less of a headache for me ( a lot less time consuming and not at all tedious, too ), and hopefully for people who were moved to inactive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 12:28:08 GMT
At every site I staffed at, activity checks were abused. People who were never active would come in, throw up an open thread they didn't intend on replying to or post to other ongoing threads (only the amount that's required for the AC, mind you), and then poof for another month or two until the next activity check. Rinse and repeat. I don't think it's very fair to others to behave like that and it certainly doesn't help a site live.
I go behind the scenes and check which accounts haven't posted in X amount of time and then archive them, sending them a PM that they were archived. When they're ready to come back, they just let me know and I resort their accounts (unless there were big site changes then their apps might need to be freshened up). It's a lot less of a headache for me ( a lot less time consuming and not at all tedious, too ), and hopefully for people who were moved to inactive.
I do all sorts of activity checks, and tend to reward people afterwards. I also adapted to moving people to inactive as our staff team really likes to keep the boards clean. Less to sort through later if needed. Everyone is always welcome to come back, and deleting accounts is an unwelcoming gesture. |
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Post by Lacuna on Oct 3, 2018 18:11:49 GMT
(all "you"s general)
I've come away from rollcall style activity checks because it's a pain to chase after people to post in them and kind of redundant when I can just check characters myself and see who's still around (mind you I like doing organizational things like that. I can understand other admins wanting to decrease their own workload with rollcalls). Nowadays I go through the directory at the end of each month, make a list of characters that haven't posted, and send out a mass PM that states the characters in question will be unsorted in two weeks unless they make an IC post. I also tag people with inactive characters in a discord announcement since barely anyone uses or even looks at onsite PMs anymore.
We still get instances where people will post once a month just to save characters but if it goes on for too long, we DM the person abusing the system and have them cut their character count down to something more manageable. It might seem harsh, but imo if you're only posting once a month without an absence note, you're not really interested and have no business taking up a ton of popular claims. I get that busy times happen, but if you're so busy you can't post consistently for several months, you should probably just drop your characters and bring them back when you've got free time rather than stringing your thread partners along with a plot that's gonna take 2 years to get anywhere at that posting rate. Even if their FC gets taken, there are many more white-haired pretty boys to choose from.
Since we use profile apps, I don't delete character accounts. I know for me, it'd be a huge pissoff if I went back to a site looking to retrieve something only to see it's been wiped off the face of the earth. I do occasionally go through and delete OOC/blank character accounts to free up names, but that's it. I don't think anyone is going to look at Mega and seriously think we have 800+ characters. There's an active character directory for a reason.
I do agree that most sites need some kind of common knowledge check + grace period, though, rather than archiving characters without a word. At least if someone comes back and complains after the fact, you can show them the thread/announcement/whatever and go "should've paid attention". There's also the possibility of members coming back when they realize they're still interested in a character and don't want to lose them. They might end up being a face-hoarder, might not. Gotta take the good with the bad!
From a member standpoint, I don't mind activity checks. They don't take long to fill out so it's whatever. Unless you have a ton of characters, then rip.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 19:54:00 GMT
member's perspective here
i like ac's. then i only have to wait 30 days to be free of my ghosted threads instead of biting my nails down to stubs for months wondering if my partner's gonna return or not. kinda wish there was more respect for them tho. i mean, they only work if members acknowledge that's how the community works. i can't count how many times i've seen someone come back conveniently the day after the ac ends like "omg there was an ac?? i didn't know?" like i get being forgetful, i'm a huge airhead who doesn't know the day of the week half the time, but when the site has one lit every month, it's in the rules, staff personally told us all, put a message above the chat, pinned it in the discord, made an announcement, sent out pm's...i just, dude.....
cuz of stuff like that imo i prefer the behind the scenes ac's. i can see how sending out warning pm's would get old after a while, but maybe w the addition of a 3 strikes rule? i don't rly see any reason why anyone would need to be reminded more than 3 times. and if so, welp
i don't have any advice for consequences or rewards or w/e having never staffed but i'm def in favor of ac's in some way shape or form. they prevent thread limbo and make it easier to find active people to plot with. they also help me stay on task if i'm having a hectic kind of month where my head's all over
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bits
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Post by valka on Oct 3, 2018 20:19:07 GMT
i get a rush of power whenever i run activity checks, take that how u will
i don't mind activity checks at all, from both a member and staffing viewpoint. as a member, i can see that it's a way for staff to check in and see who's interested and clean out old threads and claims. as a staffer, ho boy is it good to see who's still around and what things i can clear out. plus, on my site, we have a section for 'comments', where people can post any suggestions or ideas they're comfortable with doing so, and a section for 'characters to delete', in case people have a character they want to drop, in which case they'd post links to all appropriate threads to archive.
to go into a bit more detail: on chaos theory, we run a roll call activity check for one week every two months, wherein you post with all your character accounts and let us know the last post date for each of your accepted characters. (i ask everyone to do this because it's too much work to go through 200+ characters and check things myself.) our activity requirement is pretty damn lax. it's "one post per character every six months." if a character doesn't post at least once every six months, then they get moved to our 'inactive' group and the player gets sent a message to let them know that it's an issue and they need to do something about it, whether it's post with them or drop the character.
six months may seem like too long, but [shrug] we don't want to put a huge amount of pressure on people. we want to be a safe space, a home, not a place where you get sick with anxiety because you want to be part of the site but you're having to post when it's incredibly hard to do so and it's stressing you out. rp is meant to be fun!
anyway, regardless of site, there needs to be some kind of activity check, whether it's behind the scenes by staff or in a thread that members post in. the method doesn't matter; you do what works for you, and your site.
like i get being forgetful, i'm a huge airhead who doesn't know the day of the week half the time, but when the site has one lit every month, it's in the rules, staff personally told us all, put a message above the chat, pinned it in the discord, made an announcement, sent out pm's...i just, dude.....
PREACH IT
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Post by Kitten4u on Oct 3, 2018 23:38:50 GMT
I think where I differ, and why I don't do behind the scenes checks, is because I don't actually care if people are posting with all their characters. I'm totally in favor of people having 20+ characters but only posting with like 3 of them at any given moment because sometimes people just want to do a thing and they're not in the mood to post with other characters at the moment. I think this is fine. RP is just a hobby and I think people should do what they want. I've never had problems with people hoarding claims or people wanting claims that are taken, so it's been fine. But I think dealing with those people is pretty easy just because it's generally easy to tell when someone's not writing a character because they're more interested in other things right now vs they've lost all interest in the character. If it becomes clear that someone's just keeping a character for the sake of preventing anyone else from using the claim, then it's easy enough to tell them to knock it off because they're being a jerk.
Though honestly I think part of the reason I never run into this problem is because I put actual mechanics around retiring and/or killing off characters. It means rather than sitting on them not knowing what to do, they can spring board plots and have them go out in a blaze of glory while also benefiting the characters that they do want to play. So maybe the way I have things setup in this regard just makes it less necessary for me to worry about claim hoarding? My ACs have more to do with keeping my lists updated than worrying about freeing up FCs.
I'm also with the camp that doesn't delete accounts. I didn't think anyone used member count as an accurate representation of how many members there were since people make new accounts for characters. Even if I cleaned out all the ones I put in inactive, there'd still be like 20 accounts even though I only have about 6 members (including staff). I just keep them for archival purposes and in case the person comes back later. It's a bit cleaner for returning people when you can just move them out of inactive and they don't have to worry about recreating any old threads or what-not. Plus, when reading old posts you still get to see their avatar and stuff, making it easier for binge readers to tell who this is.
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Post by 「イオタ」 on Oct 4, 2018 5:00:55 GMT
I think where I differ, and why I don't do behind the scenes checks, is because I don't actually care if people are posting with all their characters. I just want to put out that I don't necessarily care if someone is posting with "all" of their characters either (exception being canons), I only archive people who haven't been active with any of their characters. My philosophy (cough, whatever it's called) is that it's up to someone to drop a character they haven't been using in a while. If it has been like 2+ months (because we require at least 1 post a week ideally [but that's 1 post per player, not 1 post per character]), then I'll ask if they want to archive their character until a later date but it's still up to them if they're otherwise active. So far, my members are pretty responsible so I have trust in them. Edit: I'm not a fan of character factories for my particular site because it's meant to focus on character development as opposed to character creation, so I also have a rule that after the first 4 characters, a member needs to get them all up to 50 posts in order to have a 5th character, so I'm not really concerned about the aforementioned because it's very unlikely someone will have 20 characters with 19 of them being inactive for months (that I would have an issue with. But one or a couple inactive characters inactive at a time? No issue with that.). |
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