RP Site Admin asking for opinions

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Hello everybody. ^^

The reason for this thread is that I'm concerned about the site I admin. We've been around since 2007. Back then we were one of the most popular Kingdom Hearts RP sites on the net. Since then, our member base has gradually receded down to a very small percent we're at now. I've recoded the site twice myself for visual improvements and to suit our needs. (I know it's nothing stellar looking, but I re-learned HTML5 and CSS3 as a service to this particular site.) Despite more advertising and affiliation, we seem to be having trouble gaining new members.

Those of us who are dedicated to the site are all old enough to have full time jobs and real life commitments around our passion for write, so we're used to a slightly slower pace, however we're still interested in gaining a bigger member base. However, at this point I feel I've thrown everything I have at the site and I'm at a loss. I love this site and I'm willing to do an awful lot for it. So my question is: what is there that I can to to help this site thrive? Is there anything that stands out as this could be easier to access, that could be easier to understand, or 'this plot is just plain boring'? Do we have a bad reputation around the internet that I don't know about? 

Have you noticed anything in your own RP sites that helps encourage new members?

Thanks in advance.
~ Era



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okay so. i'm gonna kind of split this into two parts.

the first is..... gonna be a larger discussion about the rpc. specifically that it's not entirely on you that the site's in the decline.

forum-based roleplaying overall has been largely on the decline in the past several years as it's been supplemented by other platforms such as discord, twitter, and tumblr that have a lower barrier of entry and are much more in the style of instant gratification. this likely isn't likely combining well with animanga being a fairly limited pond to start with, never mind the fact that a good portion of the animanga community has remained largely decentralized after gangnam style closed down several years ago and that animanga still heavily straddles the proboards vs jcink debate which can cut down on potential members for any site simply because you have people on either side of the fence who won't even look at the other host.

i'm not super big into kingdom hearts specifically but i will summarize what has said previously in this topic that kingdom hearts as a fandom has also grown massively since 2007, to the point that the lore can be... pretty intimidating, even to those familiar with the fandom, never mind complete outsiders, which will obviously make it harder for you to attract people onto the site just because your demographic is smaller now than it was five or ten years ago.

which.... i guess is my awkward segway into my second part: a little bit of site advice.

the good news is... i don't think it's a bad rep or anything that's entirely beyond your control in regards to trying to breathe new life into the site.

the bad news is... it's probably not going to be an easy fix. the rp community has changed a lot since 2007, and it'll probably do the site good to give it more than just a facelift. i'm not saying that to try to slam your site or put it down - just that, for example, when i was looking for the "basic information" board (aka where the rules + plot / setting + faq + fight mechanics threads go), i was thrown for an absolute loop just because it wasn't the very first board with all the big threads linked up in the site navigation, to the point that i very nearly missed it entirely. the rules do the immediate job in terms of content, but again, it's definitely not in the format i'm used to looking for with information i know to look for (like how often i'm expected to post to be considered active, what the word count is, rules for additional characters, what is and is not acceptable face claim material, what characters are accepted on the site in terms of canons vs ocs, etc); the same can definitely be said with the application form as well.

personally, i know if i were in your shoes, i'd be doing a wholescale site move to a new url with entirely reworked lore threads + layouts + systems - not to purge all of the old content but to give the site a fresh feel, so new members won't feel the weight of that decade-plus of history weighing over them while revitalizing it for the current members you have as you're bringing it up more in-step with the current trends and layouts. but again - that's just what i personally would do if i were in your shoes. you could absolutely get away with doing a massive site revamp on the same url instead (i just favor the move because honestly it'd probably be easier to start from scratch than it would be to try to gut the site and rebuild it).

from there, it's mostly just a matter of just.... building the site out to adjust. like i know when i was building my atla site a couple months ago, i wanted to put in precautions for if we ended up just being a small site - so we made sure that our event systems were as member-driven as possible and had safeguards for if people poofed on them / if canon roles couldn't be filled and that our activity guidelines were set up so they wouldn't punish people who were just in a bad spot to rp or were waiting for partners or plot developments. i also personally try to be as proactive as i can for trying to get new members involved in plots, either by plotting with them myself or pushing them towards people who can plot with them, just because i've been there where i'm on a new site and no one really plots with me and i lose interest as a result and it's just... a sucky experience that i try to avoid giving to my new members tbeh.


tl;dr to this whole thing - while some of the slump is definitely not on you (because the animanga rpc is just generally smaller now than it used to be five, ten years ago and kingdom hearts in particular has increasingly become a bit of a lore nightmare that's discouraging to fandom newbies), taking the time out to just update the site layout + systems so it's laid out the way that most rpers expect to see a site nowadays will probably go a good ways towards helping you with picking up members. i could probably give you more tailored advice for help if you wanted it to a certain extent, but since i've legit only done one kh site and probs wouldn't go back to it as a genre, my specific feedback should be something taken with a grain of salt compared to someone actually interested in kh overall since that's your intended demographic and that feedback is far more useful to you in terms of "where are we losing people and what can we do to not do that."
last edit on Oct 28, 2020 22:47:05 GMT by Kuroya

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Hi there,

I do want to stress that I do believe and second a lot of Kuroya's opinions on this. There is a slump going on and it's not just you. Everyone feels this and there's definitely not a exact solution. Whether it's the plague outside, general disinterest in forum rp, or what have you - there's going to be things you're not going to be able to fix no matter how you try.

First of all, Kingdom Hearts is intimidating. My husband I believe was once on your site before we met and he loves Kingdom Hearts. I've sat down and watched most of his gameplay. I still have literally no idea what's going on. I genuinely just like seeing some characters because I'm a genuine idiot. If you want to bring in non-mainliners you have to have a good cohesive plot and strong foundation that has the general gist. If you want mainliners, well, you need a still cohesive plot.

This is going to be my recommendation purely based off introductory threads/structures and I could be missing information- so I'm sorry if this is kinda wonky.

On your site, I could only find a plot snippet- which doesn't really entail anything. Which good, cool, vague plots are fun - but it doesn't really explain anything for me to go on or what the setting is, or how an original or canon is supposed to go on. Me, a idiot, would stop there. There's not much if anything for me to explore or theorize. The rules also lead me to question how apps are done, how original characters are treated, how keyblades work, what technically constitutes neutral from evil (I saw that a lot of org 13 was staff handled so how to villains even work?), and I didn't even find a canon list until the world census - which threw me through a loop since it was only then that I realized what was taken and what wasn't.

This is obviously just from me puttering about in 4-5 minutes.

The confusion would put me off, because nothing really is clearly stated on how or why or what. I think the skin is decent- but I would definitely look into the structure of the board and what you want to put in front of people first. Maybe a newbie guide or a guide on what threads to look through first, or something like that?

I'm not sure if this helps - but I wish you all the best of luck.

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i've been around forums for a long time and kingdom hearts even longer-- i remember world destiny! i did not ever rp there as i had my own kh site in 2007 that i will not utter the name of in the fear someone finds my old writing and accidentally goes blind reading it, but i do remember you guys being around and the fact your site has had this much longevity speaks volumes of not only your staff's perseverance but your members', particularly when kingdom hearts had a bit of an information/game drought prior to the release of kh3. this is something you should absolutely be proud of.

i was mulling over on what to say before kuroya pinged me, and a lot of it has already been covered here-- information is a little difficult to find due to current trends on where information is listed now in animanga, kingdom hearts has an absurdly high barrier of entry due to the sheer amount of lore and characters, and forum roleplay in general has been on the decline. in fact most kingdom hearts specific roleplays that i know of that are active besides your forum and the select few i see around on occasion are completely discord based. it's personally not for me, but as stated it's a pretty easy way for instant gratification.

a lot of long running forums or forums that have lots of plot and lore tend to have guidebooks or timelines (examples: one, two, three) which is maybe something you could try implementing, to make the lore of kh as well as the history of your site and its characters a bit more accessible. it's not something you have to be finalized and satisfied with the moment you finish it either-- i have plans to overhaul the timeline on my own site-- but it can show the kind of plots you have on site in addition to the current state of affairs rather than something sandbox-y and vague, which might not work as well for a series so well known to be plot driven like kingdom hearts.

i don't know if there's any one particular solution or magic fix but i do think the ideas stated in prior posts are definitely something to try should you find them feasible. i wish you luck! may your heart be your guiding key. <3

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I'm gonna mention aesthetic stuff since that hasn't been talked about, and I think is very important. It isn't the sole determiner of if a site does well or not, but I think it's important nonetheless.

  • Hard to read the abbreviation in your affiliate button.  All the elements in it blend together too much and it's hard to distinguish each part individually.  When people look at affiliates they're not gonna dedicate something a lot of time looking at them, so you want something that pops and catches their attention easily.
  • I could barely read what you had written in your min-roster.  The colors, especially the one used for heartless, made them very hard to read.  Also the sudden change in font is jarring.
  • I think finding a new host for your header / banner image would be a plus, since on my first visit it took forever to load.  I asked a friend to visit the site and they said the same thing.  There's better modern image hosting sites than Fotki, like imgbb or imgur, which I think would cut down that initial load time.  
  • For board / staff images I think they need to be cropped to size.  A lot of them look squished, stretched, or just low quality.  Pick high quality images and crop them to whatever size they need to fill.
  • I know you've put a lot of work into this skin, but I think a new skin would do the site a lot of good.  There's free site skins listed here on pixel perfect that would help give your site a fresh and modern look.
  • A new proper made ad image could do a lot of work I think.  If that's something you struggle with you can browse the member shops here on pixel perfect.  If they don't reply right away you could possibly make a post requesting help in a relevant board.

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Sorry it's been awhile. I fell silent because I took in all the information you guys were telling me, processed it and began finding ways to work on those things. (Having a full-time job makes it hard to do much coding, so it's been slow.) I appreciate each of you taking the time out of your day to detail your thoughts to help a fellow admin. I wanted to address each of you personally for your invaluable feedback. 

: Thank you for your clarity. I agree, our information has been scattered and I've just not been good at finding organization for it over the years. Of course some of that is also that we've had information around since the archaic days, before post templates were the norm for the RPC. 

I really have been considering a move to JCInk just because I like it better, and thinking about what it looks like going forward, I think more of the creatives are flocking to JCink, meaning support and opportunity is likely to continue to follow. However, for now that's in the air for me, being a one-man code knowledgable-band). So I'm going to see what I can do with what I've got before I make a commitment to totally jumping ship. (However that may still be in the cards, who knows. ^^)

When you mention being bogged down by the decades plus of history, where are you seeing that? Outside of the archives and the non-modern skin, we haven't really got much decades-plus to be bogged down by in the part of the boards most people should be looking. Maybe I'm blind, but could you be more specific as to what you meant? I'd love to be able to improve, but I don't understand what you're looking at yet regarding that bit.

: Thanks for this bit on the plot. I do need to get that to an easier-to-find location so that it's more transparent to new members. It's true though, Kingdom Hearts has so much to learn! (And some of it contradicts itself, so it's a very convoluted thing to learn.) To remedy some of the whelming sensation a new member might feel when trying to pick up information, I'll be adding a snyopses to cover important lore-centric parts of the story, as well as better detailing our plot as it stands.

: Oh my gosh, I know how you feel about old writings! My Kingdom Hearts (and other such inspired fan works from my younger self) are sometimes the most embarrasing things! But it's nice to know we have that in common. On another note though, World Destiny kept me around long enough that my skills have advanced, and I can be a little more proud of the writing I put forth now. I hope perhaps we can be a foundation for young writers to have the same safe haven to grow in as I once did.

Thank you for mentioning a guidebook! It makes so much sense and is one of those moments where you feel stupid and go 'why didn't I think of that'. Anyway, I have been working to make something that serves the same sort of function as the examples, although I doubt mine will measure up to the aesthetic charm as the examples you linked. Still it should get the job done.

Thanks again for that tidbit.<3 I appreciate you.

: I'll be working on Affiliation and Ad buttons. (As well as my Favicon). I appreciate your input and may find a use for those resources in the future. Thanks for your feedback on what sticks out as improvable. It'll keep me busy making improvements for awhile.
last edit on Nov 22, 2020 4:34:07 GMT by Silver
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Sorry it's been awhile. I fell silent because I took in all the information you guys were telling me, processed it and began finding ways to work on those things. (Having a full-time job makes it hard to do much coding, so it's been slow.) I appreciate each of you taking the time out of your day to detail your thoughts to help a fellow admin. I wanted to address each of you personally for your invaluable feedback. 

: Thank you for your clarity. I agree, our information has been scattered and I've just not been good at finding organization for it over the years. Of course some of that is also that we've had information around since the archaic days, before post templates were the norm for the RPC. 

I really have been considering a move to JCInk just because I like it better, and thinking about what it looks like going forward, I think more of the creatives are flocking to JCink, meaning support and opportunity is likely to continue to follow. However, for now that's in the air for me, being a one-man code knowledgable-band). So I'm going to see what I can do with what I've got before I make a commitment to totally jumping ship. (However that may still be in the cards, who knows. ^^)

When you mention being bogged down by the decades plus of history, where are you seeing that? Outside of the archives and the non-modern skin, we haven't really got much decades-plus to be bogged down by in the part of the boards most people should be looking. Maybe I'm blind, but could you be more specific as to what you meant? I'd love to be able to improve, but I don't understand what you're looking at yet regarding that bit.


no worries! i completely get that life happens and you get busy.

as far as being uncertain on organization goes, i would definitely recommend taking a look through some of the bigger/newer sites that are around - not to copy them per se but to see how they're organizing things so you can model a similar system that works for your needs. obviously don't go with a system that you're going to lose track of but, y'know, having something a bit more like what people have come to expect in 2020 will definitely be helpful, both in terms of helping people navigate and in terms of cutting down on questions for that clarification.

honestly, i am a hard jcink convert myself - the acp was a little overwhelming at first but five years of working with it has helped me figure out how to streamline it for day to day use, even if i'm still finding new functions to this day (i discovered how to set up multimods with my newest site and holy crap it is such a quality of life update i never knew i needed). i personally find it a much better user experience from the admin and member side of things, as well as far easier to skin for, but you're also not incorrect that a lot of rpers have shifted over to jcink (and while animanga as a whole does more straddle jcink vs proboards, i also find it relevant to note that the animated panfandom, kingdom hearts, and final fantasy genres all seem to favor jcink over proboards to varying degrees). irregardless, there's a lot of people here on pixel perfect who are more intimately familiar with jcink and would likely be happy to help if you ask for it!

but to the actual crux of what you were looking for: clarity on my comment about the decade-plus site history.

i actually wasn't referring so much to anything specific per se - partially because i honestly didn't dig around that much on the site but mostly because i was talking much more generally. i know that i personally tend to get far more leery about joining a site the longer it's been open, to the point that i very rarely join a site that been open for more than a year or two, never mind a more than a decade - not necessarily because of anything against the site, mind you, but because i've found that more established sites tend to be harder to break into as a new member for a variety of reasons.

all established sites are going to have some kind of pre-established history hanging over them - that's kind of the name of the game since imo even if the site plot doesn't exist or hasn't meaningfully advanced in a very long time / since the site opened, individual character plots almost certainly have. and while some sites + people are really newbie-friendly in terms of helping a new member catch up to speed with their character, a lot of them in my experience just aren't, between having "out-of-date" want ads and character plotters (since imo if you've apped sora three months ago and put up a romance ad for riku when you were approved but since then got into an organic ship with axel but haven't updated your want ad or plotter, it's gonna be really awkward for me to show up for that ad for riku or to propose a possible ship with kairi in your plotter) or just in general making it like pulling teeth to try to figure out where people stand and what would be expected of you / what your options are. and that's just... inherently frustrating to deal with, to the point that "do i really want to deal with trying to catch up with everything" has become a legitimate question i ask myself now when i'm considering sites that have been around for a while.

but, like i said, established sites tend to be much harder to break into as a new member. if i had a dollar for every time i tried to join an established community where no one really wanted to give me much of the time of day for plots (because they reached their "thread cap", because they didn't want to invest the time or effort into me in case i ditched, because they didn't want to give me much more than surface level plots in case i ditched, because they already had most of their big plots taken by their friends and weren't really interested in branching out, because they rarely reached out to plot with newbies since they "didn't think it was their job to initiate plotting with a newbie"), honestly, i'd probably have a decent amount of change packed away. and granted, you can see this same thing in new sites that have communities where most everyone knows each other, and some sites are better at mitigating this than others, but it's something that's largely baked into what established sites are just because established sites tend to have a "core community" that's been with the site for a long time and that core community tends to have a lot of plots with each other since imo they're all the ones that stuck around, and to a certain extent, most of the time, i'd personally rather roll the dice and take the chance that this is the atmosphere of a new site than i would err on the side of "maybe this specific site isn't so bad" or "hopefully there will be a want ad i like to give me an in on the site".

plus i personally end up a little more leery of established sites that are smaller or slower since that's generally a sign that the site is likely about to die or be closed, and again, i take this chance on any site, but similarly, i'd rather take the chance on a newer site than i would hope that an established one will buck my expectations.

to reiterate - i don't know if world's destiny has anything like this specifically going on or if y'all take active steps to combat this (given that you are looking for advice, i'd like to believe you try to avoid these traps). but this is a general mentality i've come to after a lot of experiences and are some of the downsides of being an established site, especially one that has been around for so long (because a decade is a massive accomplishment when most established sites extremely rarely break five years) and is, well, in the boat its currently in. to that extent, a full scale revamp won't make all of that go away, but it will make the fact that you are an established community feel a bit less intimidating to a newbie who might be on the fence (or, on the flip side, give some promise of longevity to someone who's more leery of brand new sites).
last edit on Nov 22, 2020 18:18:08 GMT by Kuroya