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Staffing Confessions

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Just a quick rant.

I really, really dislike people who ask for line by line application reviews on Discord. I'm talking like people who will post random sections of their app in chat and expect it to be reviewed instantly, and then ask again once it's reviewed because it got buried after a day.

I've spent about 20-30 hours the past month and a half or so doing them, and they have been pointless every single time. I'm stopping them entirely, because two out of four of those reviews resulted in any sort of WIP post -- and of those two, both of them had the exact issues that I pointed out earlier or warned against.

I have no idea what the mindset is of 'hey can you review this' and then not showing me or any other staff what you are working on. Can you have a sword? Yeah, sure. Me saying you can have a sword, because come on everyone likes swords does not make me a liar when you app a meteor shooting world ending rapier with 18 points that can all rip your soul out of your body when it touches you. You asked if you could have a sword, and I said yes. There were parts left out, though.

It's been a long time since I've adminned a site, so having to relearn all of these things that I could get away with as a normal staffer but not as an admin is really annoying because I should know better. The hours I spent doing that could have been spent posting or running classes or DMing or any number of things and I just got robbed. From now on I'm just reviewing concepts and the actual profiles. A month and a half and being yanked around is more than enough for me to learn my lesson again.
Wait, people seriously do this? Don’t they realise you have a life? How awful.

i had a site I adminned where a guy would make profile edits every few days for months. It would always be minor edits too, but they never specified what was changed so you had to review the whole thing. After a few months of harassment by this guy, I finally brought in an edit limit to counter it. Really should’ve brought it in sooner, but never expected it to be abused so heavily. 
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Oh wow. I can see them eliminating first/linkbacks or affiliates (I live off affiliates, though XDD), but eliminating that on top of affiliates seems like a pretty harsh strategy. I think (and I could be wrong) the point of advertising is more to get your "brand name" out there. People see it, they may not necessarily join it, but they know at the back of their minds it exists in the first place and that it still exists. I did that advertising poll at another resource, and so far it looks like most people do generally use resource sites... but tumblr hasn't been selected yet, so Tumblr might not be a great standalone alternative, but all things together I think they're decent ways to spread the brand name. (I'm not entirely sure though, so those polls are there to find out something.)


i'm aware of your other poll (which, just fyi, i'd put more stock in the poll here than on the other site if i were you, if only because p2 is an animanga-focused resource, so it's going to be more of your potential member pool than the other one). but tbeh, i can understand the mentality of getting rid of both site-to-site ads (or at least, massively scaling them back) and getting rid of affiliates both, at least for real life. on the vast majority of sites, you're lucky to actually get any serious members (and i don't mean traffic, i mean members) from normal site-to-site ads, whether first links or return links. it's not impossible, ofc, and there are ways to stack the deck (ie, dropping ads on sites in your genre), but for the most part, it's a whole lot of time and effort put forward into precious little actual return, especially now that the jcink captchas have gone from 6 alphanumerics to full on captchas that are the bane of everyone's existence. while affiliates are more effective than site-to-site (to the point where they're still relevant in animanga), it tends to be more effective if you're advertising with similar sites (as an example, i try to hit up other superhero-style sites with my marvel + dc sites), if only for the logic of "oh no, my claims are taken on this site, let's check this other site instead" or something similar. plus a lot of coders just. have stopped including them. but it's still something you have to consider more or less if the maintenance of them (adding, checking, etc) is worth the potential traffic and members.

while a simple "establish the brand" mentality might work well for a more niche site like kd or even more limited pools like animanga, i honestly don't think it's as effective, if only because at the end of the day, there's only going to be so many people interested in the site concept and that number will whittle down the more they investigate the site for more nuanced details (essentially, that number's your site demographic, if you will). there's no real way to fluff that number up too much, just because there's only so many people who want to rp pokemon or panfandom stuff, and while volume will make it a lot easier to find those people who do fall into a given demographic, to a certain extent, most of them tend to either be in the genre already (or at least, vaguely aware of it) and/or active enough on resource sites to browse to find one. plus i mean. to me, establishing your brand usually comes off more as your attitude as a staffer or your site's community / feel (ie, ideal world's is kind of "i'm in charge, for better or for worse" and "we're a marvel + dc site that's fairly laidback, friendly, and focused more towards a social aspect than a combat or world-saving aspect"), which is all more stuff you pick up either from reading through stuff on the site itself or observing posts that the admins make on common sites like resource sites.

basically tl;dr because there's only x amount of people interested in any site from the get go, you should carefully evaluate where you're getting the bulk of your traffic and the bulk of your members since that's where it's gonna be worth your while investing your time and energy to cultivating more potential members. (google analytics is a great tool for this tbeh, as is a google form for an informal anonymous survey.) while you are still building out your brand so to speak, you do that through the site's community, policy, and reputation (which is tied closely to perceptions of staffers + members that are formed on resource sites + through word of mouth).


re: sandbox stuff, that's under the spoiler, since i'm rambling enough.
okay, i'm just gonna. politely breeze past the topic of activity here because i strongly disagree with your opinions on activity 90% of the time, and while it's fine for you to have a preference on activity and i can respect that, even if it differs from my own, i also don't want to derail this into a debate on activity standards.

but on point... i actually don't think it would be worth splintering the community like that. to be entirely honest, i think that it should be organized more as a resource site than an rp site in the sense that it's meant to be a common watering ground for people to gather at rather than something you join with a specific limitation in mind. the community would benefit from having a wider potential audience since i mean, the entire purpose of it is to be a static site for the community to fall back on - a "resource" if you will (ha, i made a joke).

if i made the sandbox, for example, i'd actually be aiming for that general community feeling. basic ooc category for plotters + trackers + development; general rp category separated by a few organizational things like real life, fantasy, fandom, etc with subdivisions as needed for like pokemon, superhero, etc; group rp category for sites-that-aren't like all of your suggestions. basically the site is just. if you're only here to thread out 1 thing with 1 friend you don't rp with anyone, and you just want to stay in your corner, that's fine! if you want to get a group together to go rp out some intense ffxiv side plot thing, that's cool too, go for it! if all you want to do is smut threads because i'd do jcink premium, hey, i am not here to stop you as long as it's hidden away in the mature board.

like... it's less of a daunting project in realizing that the largest thing stopping me would be 1) actually setting it up and writing it all out (and skinning it because ho nelly i am not wanting to skin) and 2) getting together a staff team to more or less make sure there's no drama, add new boards on request, and archive stuff that's been sitting for more than 6 months or on request.



on a non-spoiler related confession, i honestly don't enjoy advertising anymore. it's just a pain for me to drop 20+ ads on different sites, never mind the 200+ i used to be able to do in a regular sitting. i'd much rather use that time to do just about anything else, whether it's skinning or reviewing apps or just posting to other members.
last edit on Mar 17, 2019 0:48:45 GMT by Kuroya

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on a non-spoiler related confession, i honestly don't enjoy advertising anymore. it's just a pain for me to drop 20+ ads on different sites, never mind the 200+ i used to be able to do in a regular sitting. i'd much rather use that time to do just about anything else, whether it's skinning or reviewing apps or just posting to other members.



never thought i'd see this confession from u kuro
but honestly hard same. i'm happy to just chill on affiliates, and posting on resource sites, and occasionally throwing an ad out on other sites every once in a while. but advertising sprees i just, i haven't been able to do them for a while now. kinda makes me sad because i did used to love advertising contests a lot tbh.

last edit on Mar 17, 2019 1:17:29 GMT by valka
if you think i haven't been keeping up with pp, think again
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never thought i'd see this confession from u kuro
but honestly hard same. i'm happy to just chill on affiliates, and posting on resource sites, and occasionally throwing an ad out on other sites every once in a while. but advertising sprees i just, i haven't been able to do them for a while now. kinda makes me sad because i did used to love advertising contests a lot tbh.



look man, i used to power out 200+ ads all at once, and i don't regret that or entirely admit i'm not capable of doing that if i felt the desire to. but i just. don't see the point anymore when i don't see any real returns back on it. and especially when i hiss at trying to regularly do those stupid captchas that i fail half the time because i don't care enough to wait through that slow fade or because i "missed" a bicycle or clicked an "extra" car.

i still do ads sometimes, first links and fairly quick link backs, but. tbeh i keep on top of link backs more out of a sense of spite and disdain for sites that have their ad boards blocked behind age verification because no, that's not guest-friendly, gtfo, dishonor on you and dishonor on your cow. it's more of a personal vendetta now, not a pleasure or even a mildly productive way to pass the time when i have nothing better to do and no access to a computer. and i'd much rather use that downtime to do something that is more likely to produce a positive effect on the site than more or less throw the time into a black hole.
last edit on Mar 17, 2019 1:43:10 GMT by Kuroya

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look man, i used to power out 200+ ads all at once, and i don't regret that or entirely admit i'm not capable of doing that if i felt the desire to. but i just. don't see the point anymore when i don't see any real returns back on it. and especially when i hiss at trying to regularly do those stupid captchas that i fail half the time because i don't care enough to wait through that slow fade or because i "missed" a bicycle or clicked an "extra" car.


I hate hate hate hate hate captchas.

Despite being a Real Actual Human, I fail them all the time. Ironically enough, it's gotten to the point where I'm like, "I wish there was a program that could do these for me."

That said, if I'm in an environment where audio won't be a disturbance, using the audio captcha is easier and faster for me, since I only have to type out what I hear.

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Here you go: Why have Captchas gotten so difficult? (Hint: it's to train AI)
"Because CAPTCHA is such an elegant tool for training AI, any given test could only ever be temporary, something its inventors acknowledged at the outset."
“We’re at a point where making it harder for software ends up making it too hard for many people. We need some alternative, but there’s not a concrete plan yet.”


i actually miss the days where captchas were used to digitize books. i'd feel a lot less irritated by it if i knew that it was going towards an actual purpose that bettered humanity (and when it was significantly more willing to just accept if i made a mistake) instead of just. training an ai to recognize a bicycle or a car or a stoplight.

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I get beyond discouraged when I make a site and it doesn't take off right away. I know you're supposed to wait and advertise. But what do you do when it's been a month, two months even, and you've put in the work and still nothing? This isn't me trying to be all woe is me either. As I'm sure it's something we've all felt.

It just gets disheartening to see something you were passionate about not take off. Ending up with a sense of why bother? Or thinking that it's something major that I'm doing wrong.

I've got this horrible problem of comparing the thing I'm doing to the stuff others are doing. Especially when it comes to something like making a site. I'll look over at places like Hoenn and it's large member base. Or No Heroes(I believe that's what it was called) a year or so back and wonder.

What are they doing right that I'm not?

Is it that fancy skin?

Is their writing better than mine?

And I'm not being friendly enough?

Am I just not trying hard enough?

Why won't this project take off when people have expressed interested in it?

Maybe I'm just not cut out for this.


And that's my own personal issue yeah. But every time I get the inkling to try something new. To attempt to make a site. Those thoughts just creep back into my head. No matter how hard I try to keep them away.
last edit on Mar 21, 2019 0:19:52 GMT by Mouse
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I get beyond discouraged when I make a site and it doesn't take off right away. I know you're supposed to wait and advertise. But what do you do when it's been a month, two months even, and you've put in the work and still nothing? This isn't me trying to be all woe is me either. As I'm sure it's something we've all felt.

It just gets disheartening to see something you were passionate about not take off. Ending up with a sense of why bother? Or thinking that it's something major that I'm doing wrong.

I've got this horrible problem of comparing the thing I'm doing to the stuff others are doing. Especially when it comes to something like making a site. I'll look over at places like Hoenn and it's large member base. Or No Heroes(I believe that's what it was called) a year or so back and wonder.

What are they doing right that I'm not?

Is it that fancy skin?

Is their writing better than mine?

And I'm not being friendly enough?

Am I just not trying hard enough?

Why won't this project take off when people have expressed interested in it?

Maybe I'm just not cut out for this.


And that's my own personal issue yeah. But every time I get the inkling to try something new. To attempt to make a site. Those thoughts just creep back into my head. No matter how hard I try to keep them away.


reading this just made my anxiety flare up again v-v I can relate to this
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I'll look over at places like Hoenn and it's large member base. Or No Heroes(I believe that's what it was called) a year or so back and wonder.

What are they doing right that I'm not?

I've totally thought these things a lot. I think it largely has to do with those particular fandoms (especially) + bigger staff teams (though only 1-2 of them are active, usually) + and they may all be friends or various groups of friends congregating in one spot. They might not all be active either. They might really only have 12 active members with 70 people who have dropped off the face of the earth months ago, too. But I don't know. xD Just a possibility. This isn't regarding Hoenn and ONH in particular either, it's basically just thinking of larger sites in general. For (bad) example: RPG-D has 15k members, but most of those are old/abandoned accounts that they refuse to clean out.


i mean, real talk, i'd be more worried if the 'd didn't have that many accounts since they're a resource site that's been open since 2006, were a large hub for a lot of self-hosted sites up until they were forced to jcink within the past year, and actively require membership + a post count to submit site ads. (plus i mean, i don't think i know a single resource site that actually removes accounts unless by request, for obvious reasons.) but i know there are some sites that do prefer to just mark old accounts inactive rather than delete them (typically ones that use profile apps since imo if they delete them, they clear the app, which is a big yikes).


no but okay also real talk on site "success" - spoiler alert, but a large member base isn't really the mark of a successful site. goodness knows how many sites i've seen where the account number on the site is 50+ on opening week but they're dead in about a month. but longevity isn't either; you can find just as many sites where they've been around for years but the place is more or less a ghost town. heck, i wouldn't even say activity is the right measure either since sure, a site might be getting a bajillion posts a day, but if it's surviving solely on a constant flow of new members in and out all the time, how successful is it really?

it took me a good few years to really come around to it but. a successful site? it's not one that's got a lot of members or has been open for a long time or is super mega active. it's one where people feel included on the site and where people are happy to be part of the community and just... all those good feelings of more or less being safe and comfortable and home when you're part of it. for some people, yeah, that relates to all three of those things. but for me? i'd much rather see a site close in three months because the staff don't have the time for it and want to end on a high note rather than drag it out for another two or three and crash and burn in a way that sours the whole experience for everyone.

if your site is just you and three other people, that's fine! you're not going to get anywhere by looking at all those other sites and feeling bad. look at your little home and just. figure out what works. figure out what isn't working and tweak it. make an effort to help people feel involved and included on the site (not just greeting them and being temporarily excited but genuinely interested in trying to thread with them and making an effort to do so). take pride in what you do right. try to do the best you can with what you struggle with. stick through the slow spots and rejoice in the busy ones (goodness knows how many sites exist today because they just powered through a lot of the "dying" phases). don't sweat when people leave - sometimes things just don't work out or they're not really a good fit.

just. do what you love. make the kind of site that you yourself would want to join if you came across it as some random potential member. and just hang in there. it's far better to run a small, less active site that you're proud of and happy with than it is to run a massive, busy one that you hate dealing with and avoid being on. as long as you're happy with where you are, that's a success in my book.
last edit on Mar 21, 2019 20:21:42 GMT by Kuroya

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I get beyond discouraged when I make a site and it doesn't take off right away. I know you're supposed to wait and advertise. But what do you do when it's been a month, two months even, and you've put in the work and still nothing? This isn't me trying to be all woe is me either. As I'm sure it's something we've all felt.

It just gets disheartening to see something you were passionate about not take off. Ending up with a sense of why bother? Or thinking that it's something major that I'm doing wrong.

I've got this horrible problem of comparing the thing I'm doing to the stuff others are doing. Especially when it comes to something like making a site. I'll look over at places like Hoenn and it's large member base. Or No Heroes(I believe that's what it was called) a year or so back and wonder.

What are they doing right that I'm not?

Is it that fancy skin?

Is their writing better than mine?

And I'm not being friendly enough?

Am I just not trying hard enough?

Why won't this project take off when people have expressed interested in it?

Maybe I'm just not cut out for this.


And that's my own personal issue yeah. But every time I get the inkling to try something new. To attempt to make a site. Those thoughts just creep back into my head. No matter how hard I try to keep them away.




howdy~

if you'd like my insight i can chip in as well. this is a confession thread so idk how encouraged people are to chip into discussing confessions and etc.

mostly because my view on the matter probably deviate from the norm within the animanga community.

i agree with a lot of points kuroya makes but stray off as well on some aspects.
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I legit feel bad when a guest comes in that's clearly enthusiastic and ready to go...

But very clearly and completely want something else from what my site offers and what every other site in the fandom offers. People who go into a fandom where it's light stats or no stats and want full free form and won't compromise, or people who have powers that are game breaking enough for everyone in the genre to disallow.

It's not that their ideas are wrong or that their way of playing is invalid, it's just they have no place to really write it if they refuse to budge or swap to another fandom and that sucks. I don't really get it, because I've never been that married to one form of IC conflict resolution or another and the powers I want generally really suck, but there are some really cool things and themes that can be explored in really high powered stuff...

But if everyone on the site would think an X-Men character was super strong and you want to bring in Superman... I feel bad, but I'm also not going to allow you to come in and beat the hell out of my entire member base either.
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Impulsive site(s) making, or joining so many sites in the past and then deleting my account from them being inactive or lack of interest, deleting the site(s) I created when it goes inactive.

Being staff has proven to be hard, more so because I got accused of stealing another site's concept. Several members from that site joined mine, allowing me to believe they were interested in my site. Within a week of believing my site was succeeding, they started accusing me of stealing from the site. The accusation being placed on the chatbox, for everybody to see instead of messaging me directly because their logic was I had seen the site and copied it. Because I knew the main admin prior to the accusation, I was under the belief they were apart of the scheme. Thankfully they were lurking so that we could resolve the accusation off site, though despite it all, I can't help but believe there are people out there that took that accusation to heart. Have you ever tried proving your innocent before? I have and it is impossible because it is my word against what they believe. If it wasn't for my co-admin helping me cope through this experience I would have quit role playing forever. With that in mind, I've always been hesitate to share my ideas because I don't want to be accused of stealing ever again.

I get paranoid on if I'm truly helping out on the site I'm on, though I think if I needed improvement somebody would have told me by now? I'm always getting paranoid about joining a site a person is staff on because I joined an older site they were on and left. What can I say? I look at my global account and it looks cluttered if I have a bunch of sites that I'm not planning on staying on.

Ohhhhhhhh and at one point of time I never understood how a person could make so many characters on their site, for those who are on the same site as me, you know I have 40+ characters and it seems to be ongoing *cough, cough*

Going to shut up now....
last edit on Jul 19, 2021 19:25:18 GMT by Deleted
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I used to get upset when a guest would pop in the chat and then leave my site because no one responded to them within 5 minutes. Nowadays when I see it happening on sites I play on I just sort of roll my eyes and think the staff probably dodged a bullet.
last edit on Apr 19, 2019 14:49:50 GMT by Sharp