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Staffing Confessions

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aliasthomas, breezescodes
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yeah ai is a joke and yet another nft-like tech scheme. i enjoyed this blog post quite a bit on the subject too, from a "beleaguered engineer suffering in industry" perspective I Will Fucking Piledrive You If You Mention AI Again which i think many people will have already read, but it's still funny as hell.
last edit on Jun 30, 2024 14:49:52 GMT by bc
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unrelated to the ai stuff, but i love when i have to make a reminder that there's no set portrayal of canon characters because of how many mediums the site takes inspo from. like no, i don't have to make a note on the canon list that there's a "derivation" from canon for a character so it's "easy to see at a glance". we have no set canon! read the damn app!


update i actually discovered the character doesn't deviate from canon at all it's just the manga ver. im so mad
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i've staffed for so many places over so many years, and i still can't figure out a split between Being Staff and Also Being A Member in my head. it isn't bad every time, but there are always days where my brain is like ... mm, no, no roleplay for us today. we need to be prepared in case we have to suddenly take care of the... everything.
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Honestly, I've been thinking about ways to potentially reduce the load, but it still seems a little daunting... I think it's been a little easier when I organize stuff to think about things in ways of 'what needs to be taken care of now', and what can be kept until I've got free time on my hands where I'm not writing myself... unless it's a time-sensitive site event, or someone's very first profile approval, there's a lot of stuff that could be compartmentalized...

...But I like to have moderation tasks completely cleared out T.T The duality of man... one braincell wants to procrastinate on work and one braincell wants a clean desk
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i've staffed for so many places over so many years, and i still can't figure out a split between Being Staff and Also Being A Member in my head. it isn't bad every time, but there are always days where my brain is like ... mm, no, no roleplay for us today. we need to be prepared in case we have to suddenly take care of the... everything.
Truly, one of the most important things for me personally when it comes to staffing is this: is this a site that I am enjoying writing on? I have not made sites to simply serve other people— I'd like to also be a member too. I should be making a site that I too want to write on, otherwise it's just not sustainable because I'm not getting paid to run a site, it's always been a passion project.

Still, I do see where you're coming from here! I really like to get tasks out of the way, and I feel so bad when I'm holding up members because I didn't process A, B, and C, or I haven't written out what the next bit of lore that would be necessary for the site plot just yet.

Personally haven't admin'd in a long time because I really needed the time to simply be a member in a space just focusing on writing and not pleasing other people, but be kinder to yourself, you're trying the best that you can. If you aren't writing enough on your own, it might be a good time to give yourself a small break because some of the strongest comebacks happen after a well earned vacation.
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Writing samples are a particularly contentious application section. Using an AI to write it for you completely defeats the purpose, but you already doesn't respect it, I'm like. "Yeah, I can imagine the guy who'd do that."
tbh i get this and i will note: the RP doesn't require anything except just an example of how you intend to play the canon character. If it required a powers and personality section on top of that, I don't think I'd be there lol. Turns out I actually do like writing 400 words of a canon character responding to some random prompt, though, it's actually a really easy app system when we should all know the basic canon details. It's a glimpse at your personal take on the canon rather than a list of things we Already Know.

It also doesn't have a set word count. It's REALLY lenient, I find.
last edit on Jul 3, 2024 22:43:03 GMT by illidan main

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Writing samples are a particularly contentious application section. Using an AI to write it for you completely defeats the purpose, but you already doesn't respect it, I'm like. "Yeah, I can imagine the guy who'd do that."
tbh i get this and i will note: the RP doesn't require anything except just an example of how you intend to play the canon character. If it required a powers and personality section on top of that, I don't think I'd be there lol. Turns out I actually do like writing 400 words of a canon character responding to some random prompt, though, it's actually a really easy app system when we should all know the basic canon details. It's a glimpse at your personal take on the canon rather than a list of things we Already Know.

It also doesn't have a set word count. It's REALLY lenient, I find.
//slight deviation from the original topic but

I heavily dislike any apps that require an rp sample. What gives anyone the right to judge whether this player or that player have better writing, better grasp of the canon, and have more right to play x character? It already sets up the idea of "you might not be good enough of a writer" and just allows for more exclusivity and elitism in the rp space. It's a hobby, not a job.

Maybe it makes sense in the panfandom community, but just seems strange to require a sample of your writing to prove your ability to be able to engage in a hobby. If the admins want to make sure the characters are aligned with the canon, then they should communicate with the writer along the way, not look to see if they should be excluded from the get go.
last edit on Jul 4, 2024 12:19:20 GMT by Mizo

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//slight deviation from the original topic but

I heavily dislike any apps that require an rp sample. What gives anyone the right to judge whether this player or that player have better writing, better grasp of the canon, and have more right to play x character? It already sets up the idea of "you might not be good enough of a writer" and just allows for more exclusivity and elitism in the rp space. It's a hobby, not a job.

Maybe it makes sense in the panfandom community, but just seems strange to require a sample of your writing to prove your ability to be able to engage in a hobby. If the admins want to make sure the characters are aligned with the canon, then they should communicate with the writer along the way, not look to see if they should be excluded from the get go.


i used to not be a huge fan of writing samples, but honestly, i've actually come around to them after having a huge epiphany about them.

which is to say. if you're wanting to use an rp sample to judge the quality of someone's writing or the characterization of a given character - you're not going to learn anything the rest of the app generally wouldn't already tell you. most freeforms/histories are going to be more than long enough to given an indication for quality (and tbeh i think there's an argument to be made that someone's skill in long-form prose probably shouldn't matter for rp when rp is an ongoing back-and-forth between two people, not a self-contained piece from just one person) and in my experience, the objectively bad takes on a character (think like captain america being hydra) are going to be throughout the entire app rather than something you catch in an rp sample alone.

that being said though. if you have a simpler app, especially one that forgoes personality sections, an "rp sample" can make a huge difference in actually getting a feel for the character's, well, characterization, particularly if the freeform/history is dry or short or full of purple prose or obscure or lacking in any other way. when done well, that drabble on a character is going to give as much information about the characterization as a good freeform would.

to put it another way. when i last apped tartaglia for a discord server, i made his sample a whole drabble about him having to go fetch dottore from his lab and being given one freebie question to ask dottore literally anything which he then used to ask if he did the dirty with his clones and immediately got thrown out of his lab, and it was dumb and silly and probably said just about as much about how i intended to play him (as a man with little to no impulse control, a shaky grasp on respecting authority, absolutely no fear in the face of near certain doom, and an eternal pain in the rear for every single one of his coworkers or anyone else who happens to exist near him) as the actual history section i wrote for him.

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tbh i get this and i will note: the RP doesn't require anything except just an example of how you intend to play the canon character. If it required a powers and personality section on top of that, I don't think I'd be there lol. Turns out I actually do like writing 400 words of a canon character responding to some random prompt, though, it's actually a really easy app system when we should all know the basic canon details. It's a glimpse at your personal take on the canon rather than a list of things we Already Know.

It also doesn't have a set word count. It's REALLY lenient, I find.
//slight deviation from the original topic but

I heavily dislike any apps that require an rp sample. What gives anyone the right to judge whether this player or that player have better writing, better grasp of the canon, and have more right to play x character? It already sets up the idea of "you might not be good enough of a writer" and just allows for more exclusivity and elitism in the rp space. It's a hobby, not a job.

Maybe it makes sense in the panfandom community, but just seems strange to require a sample of your writing to prove your ability to be able to engage in a hobby. If the admins want to make sure the characters are aligned with the canon, then they should communicate with the writer along the way, not look to see if they should be excluded from the get go.
but like idk, writing posts is easy and apps is annoying? It's fucking annoying to write a backstory/personality/powers section for a character when you can wiki that stuff. As a result, the RP doesn't require writing samples for OCs but does require a backstory/personality section for them b/c you can't just wiki that.

you can argue ANY app is exclusionary. have to write a history before you're accepted? Get rejected because the history doesn't fit the lore? Isn't that the same exact concept? Isn't that treating the space like a hobby and not a job? What about when you have to describe every single nuance of your characters' powers, even when it's easily found on google? because someone can't just google "what does the force in star wars do" and you're pended three different times to explain it better?

i vastly prefer being told "hey just write a simple post about how you plan to play the character" or "write a plotter for your character" to being told "so we need every single minutae." Canons are easier to write than OCs in this setting because it's really easy to capture a canon's voice in a single post compared to writing a personality/history section for a character I've never written.

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but like idk, writing posts is easy and apps is annoying? It's fucking annoying to write a backstory/personality/powers section for a character when you can wiki that stuff. As a result, the RP doesn't require writing samples for OCs but does require a backstory/personality section for them b/c you can't just wiki that.

you can argue ANY app is exclusionary. have to write a history before you're accepted? Get rejected because the history doesn't fit the lore? Isn't that the same exact concept? Isn't that treating the space like a hobby and not a job? What about when you have to describe every single nuance of your characters' powers, even when it's easily found on google? because someone can't just google "what does the force in star wars do" and you're pended three different times to explain it better?

i vastly prefer being told "hey just write a simple post about how you plan to play the character" or "write a plotter for your character" to being told "so we need every single minutae." Canons are easier to write than OCs in this setting because it's really easy to capture a canon's voice in a single post compared to writing a personality/history section for a character I've never written.

i think the logic of "just wiki/google it" is not intuitive. maybe if it's just you and one person, sure fine it works but not in a group setting. consider an app like how guidebooks are used nowadays. before you would have several tabs open, on several posts around the site just to get the basic information. i know in a thread on pixel that talked about guidebooks people like them because the information is all one section. a character app should be the same, it gives individuals a quick access to who your character is. a wiki should be used if the person reading over your character wants to learn a little more about your character that isn't in your app.

personally i argue if you're rejected because your history doesn't line up with site's lore, then why are you joining? like it's only fair to have your character's backstory make sense in what the setting is. most would get upset if a group is playing medieval knights and then there's that one individual bringing in a cyberpunk hacker. sure that's more of the extreme, if it's something else like some minor detail i'd ask why it doesn't fit or how i can change it to fit better. because overall you're joining their site and if you really want to join, you'd be okay with switching/removing something (if it's reasonable). but if even then you're rejected despite changing as they suggested or explaining in simple words, at that point it isn't you and just the staff not wanting you to join. which is your red flag right there.

overall it boils down to preference and if you're willing to put time into joining a site. if you're under the 'this feels more like a job', whether it's writing a sample post or plugging in history, i'd say you're not really invested in joining said site. roleplaying is about having fun and passion in writing a character, the more passionate you're about a character the more willing you'll set aside time and put up with things for that said character. (of course this is under the impression of excluding irl ordeals.)
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i'll concur with kuroya here. if the rp sample is the basis in which you (general) gauge someone's personality, motives, and behaviour - and actually given my initial assumption was not "source media canon" but "claimed position" this applies outside of panfandoms, which already must have more complicated apps by necessity (you can forgo complexity but it makes it a fucking pain to plot lmao) - an rp sample is basically acting as a personality freeform @ that point. bonus points if you ask to make the sample within the context of the site. that's a way of introducing/familiarising/testing characterisation waters/whatever else too for the player's benefit. i wouldn't particularly care for it on sites that already have a shit ton of other fields (again, general here) but that's about it.

i think the most egregious aspect of rp samples is how unnecessary it often is (b/c other fields can already cover what it provides) and worse, often exists exclusively to judge people's writing ability LOL. (once again, i speak generally and not on anyone's specific case b/c i don't know how you have run your site apps; but from what i've seen on rp per thread type forum set ups where applications are like that -) if its only purpose is to judge someone's writing ability i do not care for it one bit. like kuroya said, someone's shit writing / characterisation is unlikely to be obvious or solely obvious based on a single (1) writing snippet and will be more likely evident throughout the general application (is that not one of the reasons we have apps, after all?) - if you (general) need a field to point to as an excuse for "this is our designated nana you can't join because we hate your writing" shrug cool i'm not joining lol

however, i respect a dual purpose rp sample. if it's playing the purpose of personality / you use it to encourage players to dev within the rp site setting before/during the apping process itself / or whatever else, it may not be my thing personally, but i do like the concept as a whole in terms of economic and efficient app set up in a way that isn't just "list off your character's extremely contradicting personality traits in a way that has little to no meaning to the reader and is just one of the obligatory check marks that all apps go the way of eventually"
last edit on Jul 4, 2024 18:57:20 GMT by bc
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snipped for length

you seem to carry a lot of pent up anger about apps and admins/sites, but to take what you say in face value : Apps and rp samples are not mutually exclusive. I have seen sites that require an rp sample to gauge your writing quality, before even allowing you to make an app. I assume that admins are generally open to talking to their members to modifying bits about their characters that might not fit on the site lore, and these details are often not caught in an rp sample.

My experience with previous sites has been largely positive with application processes because it's under the basis of "You can apply, change what you have to, and be able to roleplay." On the other hand, an rp or writing sample seems to be judging someone based on something as vague as "vibes" of the character and their writing style, which I strongly feel is intrinsically harder to judge and not our place to do so. Admins can also often customize applications into specific details they need to make sure the character doesn't mess up the site lore (Original roleplays). I'm sure rp samples can be productive in their ways for panfandoms. However, I think it's unfriendly to other roleplayers to have to google every bit about your character instead of having to glen it in the application simply because they don't engage with the media.

Also, when are people explicitly rejected from the whole site because their application doesn't fit fully into the site? Admins often pend apps for that very reason so they can discuss with the roleplayers. If there are admins out there that kick roleplayers out and reject them immediately based on an app, I would like to know. On the other hand, I have seen a fair share of discord and jcink roleplays that refuse to allow writers to play specific canons because they disagree with the "vibe" of the rp sample. Is that not more exclusionary?

Likening both is puzzling when one is more subjective than the other.

That said, I am speaking more from an original roleplay perspective, and perhaps rp samples are great in panfandom roleplays. I also agree with and are also productive discussions to be had about how to streamline applications and make them more user friendly as well; I'm not claiming they are perfect.
last edit on Jul 4, 2024 18:57:28 GMT by Mizo

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( we all have pent up anger about apps and admin/sites a la surely the experience of bashing one's skull into the computer because some site's apping style did not Work With Us is not a particularly exclusive one. and of course the admin/site wank is as eternal as they get in this hobby.)

i think it's worth asking whether certain parts of the app are necessary; what functionalities they specifically serve and is their current implementations the most efficient at communicating to the reader? backstory / personality / power fields etc for panfandoms are often needed because "i cannot be consulting a wiki and have to figure out how this wiki is laid out and god forbid if its one of those medias without any wiki why would you do this to me" but besides panfandoms, i think it can be very individual community-level and person to person what kind of apping style works. if illidan has deigned such earthly applications untow- (i'm kidding. i'm sorry.) ahem.

some people do have entirely different philosophy towards apping. apping is quite different component than rp post-wise, in large part because of that. yknow. collaborative story element we here like to yap on about at rp hq. i don't blame anyone if they look @ apps and think, tiredly, fuck that shit. b/c it's not people are generally here for, and that levels of "here for" can fluctuate. also (wow i'm really chatting people's ears off, sorry) i'd argue that applications feel entirely like a job formality for some people because the excitement of the hobby comes from being able to actually rp with others, and just because you can put up with it, doesn't mean you are obligated to enjoy it, and one's investment in a site is not withstanding of any of this. perhaps i've uh missed the point uh... but idk! sometimes you do things that you find a chore because of the pay off, and not to say that thinking an app is a chore can't lead to "well fuck this site i'm over it" line of thought, but i wouldn't say it always necessitates.
last edit on Jul 4, 2024 19:26:37 GMT by bc
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It's very apparent that you've never been on sites that are Really shitty about apps. I've gotten rejected from a site before because my doctor character was cynical and mean, and thus it was "unrealistic." Literally anything can be used as gatekeeping in RP. I have seen it. Like I'm ok with denying apps that feel like the user is trolling (you'll know it when you see it), but when admins are picking apart every aspect of a character for "realism" and "avoiding mary sues," it's made me a bit cynical on the process in general.

On the pent-up anger: I'm tired of spending hours on an app for a place I might not even vibe with or stay on, or a character I might end up dropping, so yeah, I hate apps that require too much effort. I specifically look for sites with easy processes, and to me, writing a small RP sample is so much easier than writing a dossier. I don't care if it's more convenient for other people. When I first join a site, I don't know if I'm going to stay there-- maybe no one wants to play with my character concepts, or maybe the players aren't looking for new players, or maybe the site's gonna die in a week, or maybe I will stay but my first character isn't really a good fit and my second character will be. So if the app process takes too long or requires too much detail, I don't join.

I personally require neither a writing sample nor a long, detailed app for sites I run. I require plotters and basic character "interest" blurbs. I like plotters. They're great. I was also recently allowed to keep an older character I made on a site more open in her history so I can let other players retcon their characters into her history, and I've been on sites that would have demanded that older characters need way more detailed histories from the get-go. So I'm pretty grateful to those admins, since that's the level of flexibility I look for.

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