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Staffing Confessions

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Almost going on three years for my current site.

It's the longest running site I've ever been a part of. My current OC is the longest running OC I've ever ran with two years of continuous writing. It's the longest I've ever been a staffer, and I've been running basically nonstop events for three years straight.

And it's not sustainable in its current state. It would take a lot of effort and a full site redirect to get it back to even where it was at ~10 consistently active members, let alone peak at ~15. It's a staggering amount of work and effort that would be required for what will likely be little payoff.

But I think I might give it a shot. Forum RP has been a part of my life for 16 years, and my current site has gotten me through the Coronavirus process with my mental largely intact. The members that are left have been there for a year and a half or more and have dumped hundreds and hundreds of posts into my site. Hundreds of posts with characters that I've really grown to love.

It's kind of crazy how overwhelmingly emotional the looming and very possible doom of a forum can make me. I get intensely attached to games/characters/people at sites and always get this way of like panic of things that may be outside of my control in the end. I've been doing this hobby for 16 odd years and for the first time I actually made a site, ran it, and did everything required to maintain it for years when I got sick of how short and transient the experiences on other sites were and how hard it was for me to get attached to characters that would only live a month or two on a site before it died.

Now I'm attached harder than I've ever been to a site and to a character and it really is a double edged sword.
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I guess for me it's the difference of opinion between me and other staff members. I lack a backbone, so to speak, so I give in easily to people's ideas and suggestions as long as it doesn't jeopardize the site in a detrimental way. Another one is staff duties and how inconsistent my staff can be at helping new members. Sometimes it seems like I'm the only person online, when there are like five other people.
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We are also on the cusp of our 3 years being open and I can't honestly believe it. Things are a little slow this time of year, with the holidays and everything, but the community is fairly solid, and even with the lack of activity, we're still doing plotting and keeping in touch. Making plans for events and the like. This is now the longest site I've ever run, and it's scary to think that it might die soon. But at the same time, if we all stay as close as we are, I don't think it will anytime soon.


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I've got a hurricane in my head, I can't feel a thing, but it's better than dead
Does anyone else do New Year cleaning and updates or is it just me x.x The amount of admin work I did yesterday, and plan for today, makes me wonder if I'm doing this right.

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so it goes.
Reopening one of my old projects and it feels so good. 💕 It's a breath of fresh air that I needed. I love both my projects but this one is just so chill. Kinda. I'm hoping there'll be IC chaos again hehehehehe~
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this ain't a vague, because i genuinely don't remember who it was and i can't be assed to double check, but someone said the word 'inclusivity' in regards to rp yesterday, and i've been dwelling on it

[insert "selkie doesn't have a superiority complex she's just mean and loud" disclaimer]

you know what you call a community that's all inclusive? a community with no boundaries. you know what you call a community with no boundaries? unhealthy, and - in my own opinion - unsustainable.

i've watched quite a few sites come and go in my time, and from what i remember from the ones still ongoing, or the ones that didn't violently explode via keeping up with the pixel perfectians (chaos theory, event horizon, hoenn, and zugzwang are specifically what come to mind) the sites that go the distance are the sites where the staff team is willing to say "this is the decision we have made, and we are not going to budge on this," politely, but firmly, show anyone who disagrees with said decision the door, and continue on with business as usual.

i feel like a lot of staff teams are afraid to do this, and i understand why staff teams are afraid to do this. we, as human beings, want to be Liked by other human beings. but, fundamentally, in order to be liked by every other human being - in order to be all inclusive - you need to exist as a person who has zero boundaries. trying to exist that way, in my (very) humble opinion, is going to do more damage to you, and your community, in the long run.
last edit on Jan 12, 2022 3:42:49 GMT by selkie
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this ain't a vague, because i genuinely don't remember who it was and i can't be assed to double check, but someone said the word 'inclusivity' in regards to rp yesterday, and i've been dwelling on it

[insert "selkie doesn't have a superiority complex she's just mean and loud" disclaimer]

you know what you call a community that's all inclusive? a community with no boundaries. you know what you call a community with no boundaries? unhealthy, and - in my own opinion - unsustainable.

i've watched quite a few sites come and go in my time, and from what i remember from the ones still ongoing, or the ones that didn't violently explode via keeping up with the pixel perfectians (chaos theory, event horizon, hoenn, and zugzwang are specifically what come to mind) the sites that go the distance are the sites where the staff team is willing to say "this is the decision we have made, and we are not going to budge on this," politely, but firmly, show anyone who disagrees with said decision the door, and continue on with business as usual.

i feel like a lot of staff teams are afraid to do this, and i understand why staff teams are afraid to do this. we, as human beings, want to be Liked by other human beings. but, fundamentally, in order to be liked by every other human being - in order to be all inclusive - you need to exist as a person who has zero boundaries. trying to exist that way, in my (very) humble opinion, is going to do more damage to you, and your community, in the long run.
i agree with a lot of this

also—

another big factor to maintain site longevity is staff's adaptability to sometimes overnight change. people come and they go, regardless of the reason, and sometimes Big Plot Movers leave behind a power vacuum.

a fair amount of people are inherently reluctant to sudden change. it might be easier said than done, but those who desire longevity should (at least) try to work towards refining their improvisational skills in order to adapt plot (both current and future happenings) to the whims of the ever-shifting member base.

and also reward their veteran members. those who stay for the "long haul" and have shown substantial activity are few and far between.
last edit on Jan 12, 2022 7:15:01 GMT by PHIMBO
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this ain't a vague, because i genuinely don't remember who it was and i can't be assed to double check, but someone said the word 'inclusivity' in regards to rp yesterday, and i've been dwelling on it

[insert "selkie doesn't have a superiority complex she's just mean and loud" disclaimer]

you know what you call a community that's all inclusive? a community with no boundaries. you know what you call a community with no boundaries? unhealthy, and - in my own opinion - unsustainable.

i've watched quite a few sites come and go in my time, and from what i remember from the ones still ongoing, or the ones that didn't violently explode via keeping up with the pixel perfectians (chaos theory, event horizon, hoenn, and zugzwang are specifically what come to mind) the sites that go the distance are the sites where the staff team is willing to say "this is the decision we have made, and we are not going to budge on this," politely, but firmly, show anyone who disagrees with said decision the door, and continue on with business as usual.

i feel like a lot of staff teams are afraid to do this, and i understand why staff teams are afraid to do this. we, as human beings, want to be Liked by other human beings. but, fundamentally, in order to be liked by every other human being - in order to be all inclusive - you need to exist as a person who has zero boundaries. trying to exist that way, in my (very) humble opinion, is going to do more damage to you, and your community, in the long run.


[insert "neko has been staffing for over 15 years now on various hellsites" disclaimer]

I think inclusivity is a very nice concept. Just like a lot of things, including everyone's ideas and trying to fit everyone into a niche part of the site is a good concept. However it rarely works in actuality. Inclusivity shouldn't mean 'everything'. It never should have been. Having boundaries is a good concept. Being able to put your foot down and saying 'no' is not a bad thing. Does this mean that you might upset people? Absolutely. Does it mean that sometimes you gotta throw the baby out with the bathwater? (aka the character might be great but the person might not be) - these things are important. I cannot agree enough with this that I have no ill will towards most.

When someone tells me they're all-inclusive, I know for a fact that they aren't. I'm wary of sites that say they are. Either they're hypocritical (tell me you're not going to throw out a sexist person or someone fond of the vagrants of the playground - yeah, I think you would, so no, by definition not all-inclusive) or they don't fully subscribe to it in the first place. I think it's important to be open and try to fit everyone in your sandbox but not to a degree you're playing jumprope with your own spine. Normalize that sometimes you gotta pull out your book and say no. There's nothing wrong with it and while this is my opinion as well.

I don't want to be like 'my way is the only way' cause gosh no, I can sometimes be an idiot, it comes with the territory of being a local cryptid - but I really do wish that people - maybe not be more *communicative* but be up front. Be upfront! It's okay! Not everyone has to like you - as long as you like you enough that you'll protect the people who decided to be in your hell-hovel in the first place. I'm happy to see I'm not the only one who feels this way either.
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re: inclusivity (and a callback to the other discussion about """cliquey""" sites)

personally, i think sites should be trying to be welcoming rather than inclusive, both because it's just a generally healthier model and because it's just. the better thing to do.

to put it another way - i think it's a bad thing for a site to be "too inclusive". both in terms of some of the examples mentioned earlier, about how it's not a good thing to, say, allow a homophobe to just exist in a community that's full of lgbt+ players, it's just not, and in terms of a more general concept that someone who posts maybe once every other month is probably going to cause a lot of frustration for everyone on a site where most people are posting once a week or so. to put it simply, sites tend to have... a little less drama + headache when you have a bunch of people who all have compatible rp preferences as opposed to a wider range with little to no labeling (the major exception being those super huge "rp what you want" sandbox sites but animanga doesn't have those so we don't need to touch on why it's an exception to the rule). which. y'know. probably this point is a bit of a "well duh" moment but sometimes you just gotta say it out loud because it's easy to lose track of the big picture for topics like this.

in the different vein of the original point, being welcoming is, well, largely what it says on the tin. in my experience, it's become far more the exception than the norm these days to have a community that's normalized reaching out to new members and making an effort to try to include them within that community if that newbie isn't already friends with one of the big friend groups on the site and/or isn't making a character that someone's actively requesting (whether as a want ad or as something that ends up becoming a smash hit). and like. i get it. i do. it's really hard to be welcoming because imo we all have limited time + energy on this planet and sometimes, no, i do not have the ability to try to get invested in a newbie who's coming in with some random character that doesn't have any immediate connections to mine and will likely be gone in three months' time. i can't commit to a bazillion threads because then i will actually reply in a timely fashion to none of them without resorting to favoritism. (heck, i even get that a site being welcoming is really hard to be consistent about since, for example, if i'm joining a site with a bunch of people who play final fantasy xiv, that week or two after the new expansion is probably gonna be largely a dead zone since the community's focused on the game + by the time they come back, i'm "old news" and don't get investigated.) but on the flip side, i also get why people are so flaky these days because good hecking grief, it is so hard to actually muster up the ability to give a singular crap about a site when it feels like you're constantly fighting to get even the vaguest kind of scraps and the experience has little to no likelihood of changing in the remotely near future.



tl;dr to all of that. in my opinion, inclusivity shouldn't be the goal of a site, it should be being welcoming, for the simple logic that "i should be ~excluded~ from a site because i love shipping and this is a site for extensive political intrigue or combat threads, not because i joined without an rp friend already existing on the site and no one had a want ad i liked enough to pick up instead."
last edit on Jan 12, 2022 12:09:01 GMT by Kuroya

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Despite my whole... 'everyone should have a home' thing, I am not all inclusive. If new people that come in rub my members the wrong way, they're usually gone in a matter of days. However, I do have a solid, 3 strikes rule. Everyone gets three chances. The first is a staff dm, I'll reach out personally to whatever member is causing trouble, figure out the reasoning behind it or if they're just being an ass to be an ass. Sometimes it's because they're young and stupid, sometimes it's because English isn't their first language, and sometimes they're just having a really bad day. Depending on their answers, I base their first strike. It isn't public and no one has to know.

Second strike, is public. I will warn them to end their behavior, or we have to start talking about them leaving. Most people, after being told such things in front of the rest of the community, will do one of two things. Either they will leave on their own terms, usually by throwing a fit and leaving, or they'll straighten up, because I've already talked to them in private about it.

If they reach the third strike faze, I reach out again, tell them this is absolutely their last chance, or they will be kicked from the discord and their characters will be archived/accounts deleted that sort of thing. This has almost never happened, because we're willing to work with people.

However, this does not mean we are all inclusive by any means. As mentioned above, there are certain things that are simply not allowed. Harassment of any kind whatsoever, is not allowed, unless it's to our characters who we have a good time berating, but half the time they deserve it. Any homophobic/racist whatever is absolutely not tolerated. People with any kind of malicious intent, do not belong with us.

For me, it is really hard. I am a people-pleaser by nature. I go above and beyond to make sure my community feels welcome and safe. We reach out to people, we talk to them, try to understand. We build rapport. A lot of sites out there boast about being a family, but I've literally met half of my community. I've gone to dinner with them or crashed at their houses, all the way across country a few times to meet the people I rp with. We help each other when we need to. We've started fundraising campaigns for one another, we listen to the problems our members have outside of rp. We support each other when needed. And it's honestly the best thing I've ever been a part of. I love our community, I truly do. Some of them I've known for nearly 6 years now, others I've known less than 6 months. It doesn't matter. We treat everyone that comes in with that kind of equality.

So I agree with Kuroya's statement wholeheartedly. You don't have to be 'all-inclusive'. You have to be welcoming. As a staff member, you have to do best for your community, and strive to have that open-door policy, but you also have to make sure that your member base feels just as respected. You have to make sure that the people on your site and in your community feel safe and supported, and that if anyone comes in to ruin that happy balance, if anyone comes in to start the drama and cause trouble, you have to be willing to either work with them, or remove them if they don't change. It's hard to get rid of people, especially in smaller communities that you want to see grow and flourish. It's hard to find that balance. But it's worth it.

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apparently i read selkie's post in a totally different way than everyone else b/c i never even considered the idea that allowing people who are racist/homophobic/transphobic was considered to be inclusive. i thought it was just like....... general rule of thumb we don't like to let those people hang around.

i thought it was more like... inclusivity as in letting people who push the boundary remain. or setting up rules that do prohibit certain content that others may like to write. b/c in my mind inclusivity is letting any type of writer stay around and trying to appeal to them all, regardless of whether or not they're the type of person you want to stay.

uhh anyways i agree 100% with what selkie said. set up boundaries in your communities, for yourself & for others, and it will save you pain in the long run.

also please let 2022 be the year staff just boot people. i got kicked from a site a while ago over a single incident i felt was ridiculous at the time but looking back shout out to that admin for curating their experience. they decided i didn't fit the vibe they wanted and i 100% respect that now.

if you dont vibe with someone, if they're giving you a headache, fuck it give em the boot!!! no more tolerating frustrating or uncomfortable people for the sake of playing nice!!!!
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also please let 2022 be the year staff just boot people. i got kicked from a site a while ago over a single incident i felt was ridiculous at the time but looking back shout out to that admin for curating their experience. they decided i didn't fit the vibe they wanted and i 100% respect that now.

if you dont vibe with someone, if they're giving you a headache, fuck it give em the boot!!! no more tolerating frustrating or uncomfortable people for the sake of playing nice!!!!
fkjdsjkfdsajkfdslajk okay i was being my version of Nice in the first post i made here (and ftr, take the fact that i'm quoting you directly as a sign that i respect you && please read this as me, like, grabbing your hand and like holding it up IRL) so now i'm gonna go apeshit -

the sites that go the distance are the sites that are not afraid to fucking boot people. omens has booted people. good communities are lead by good managers, and good managers fucking get rid of people when they're becoming a problem and show no intention of fixing said problem. sure, people get mad when they think they're being told they're a problem, and they might cope with being Mad by throwing a fit - but you, as a staff team, don't have to Deal with that. you can just boot someone and let them melt down about it somewhere else.

and, if you're a good - y'know what i don't like the connotations of that word going into this, so i'm gonna say secure manager, you don't tend to boot people unless they're legitimately an insecure person. insecure people who want to be secure will probably take getting booted as a learning experience, as (i think!) you did. insecure people who are fine where they're at are going to be pissed at you for all eternity, but that's their problem to deal with, so let them be miserable. please let 2022 be the year staff just boot people
last edit on Jan 12, 2022 16:52:37 GMT by selkie
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damn. some of these comments got me like O_o i got the wrong definition of inclusive.

welcome to the neighborhood. we're not really inclusive cause we don't allow people who murder their neighbors and i'm like WHOA.

bruh.

i greet you when u arrive. i answer your questions. i look over your app and initial plot to see if i can workshop that. if not no biggie.

aside from that, i probably engage with you where OUR interest align. that's it! ez pz. that's inclusive to me.

there r people who i've known for months who i haven't RPed with (due to our characters / plots / what we want to write not coinciding) but i still play games w/ them... when / if what we want to play intersect. n that's fine!