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honestly there's a lot about veganism that doesn't sit right with me- and this is one of those things. the black and white "no animal products, no matter what" is not only like. not feasible for a majority of people, but also a lot of things that are geared towards vegans are like. comically bad for the environment or have a reputation for having abusive labor practices. the one that really gets me are the clothing materials. like "vegan" leather is comically bad for the environment, and whether we like it or not, sheep literally have to be sheared. oftentimes animal hides or pelts are significantly higher quality (leather, wool, etc) even last a lot longer than the synthetic stuff. buy leather and wool secondhand if it makes you feel better! but honestly i feel like it's more ethical to do things like you're doing! eating eggs from someone who you know takes good care of her pets is far more ethical than buying say, a vegan leather purse that inevitably ends up in a landfill in 2 years bc it's garbage and broke easily. i have A Lot of thoughts about veganism as someone who was plantbased at one point in their lives. sometimes i think about giving it another shot (i fucked up last time and made myself very sick bc i was a stupid 19 year old) but i dunno man. i'd miss cheese. I've considered cutting back on meat products for health reasons and literally nothing else. veganism is often really uh. how do i put this. it's the liberalism of ethics. it's about feeling good, not doing good. you can definitely tell when these people suggest agave over honey. agave farming is literally driving species of bats extinct, while honey is generally not as exploitative as you'd think it would be. there is no ethical way to eat in our society, given the exploitation of immigrant work for our fruit and vegetables, and also the environmental damage of mass-farming.
and like, living in a rural area has also given me perspective, too. our capitalist food practices are incorrect, yes, but the problem isn't that we eat animals. the problem is the environmental damage caused by mass farming. we need alternatives that are better for the environment. plant-based isn't gonna save the planet.
There’s some interesting points here and I’d like to offer my view as someone who’s been vegan for thirteen years. Not to try and convert anyone or create any arguments around what’s right or wrong, just to clarify at least my view point on it. I always feel a bit anxious when publically talking about it because it can draw strong feelings and harsh debate, so I want to be clear that everyone’s ethics and opinions are their own, and these are just mine. First, chicken farming. I hear a lot of people suggest that eating eggs that were from chickens they raised themselves would be okay. I would definitely consider this more ethical than getting them from a mass produced farm would be. It just wouldn’t be vegan because veganism doesn’t promote using animals for what they can do for us, marking that as exploitation. However I’d have a few questions around what happens to the hens if they no longer lay (do they get killed?) and where you got the hens from in the first place. For me, the worst part of the egg industry is how they breed and produce egg laying hens, not the consumption of eggs. Male chicks produced during this process are considered waste and treated horrifically, so unless my hens were rescues, I wouldn’t consider purchasing hens to lay eggs as a good alternative. It’s the same issue with dairy and what happens to male dairy calves and male chickens was one of the biggest factors that switched me from veggie to vegan, one that often gets overlooked by non-vegans. Plastic vs animal is something I’ve considered before and is something I’ve found to generally be a major trolley problem with veganism when it comes to clothing. Do I kill one animal now for my boots or do I indirectly harm a lot more later by wearing plastic? I’ve yet to come to a satisfactory conclusion on it for leather, but there are some plant based leathers that are being produced that might offer a third route. Currently they’re a bit expensive. On wool, I did look at second hand wool to see if that was viable, but I found most wool I can afford is a blend of plastic and wool, which felt a bit like pushing my trolley down one set of tracks then reversing it to roll down the other side too for good measure. As a result, I still avoid wool at the moment. I do think you’re right that a lot of online veganism that you see on TikTok or YouTube is posturing. However I think a lot of us are people with good intentions who really just don’t want cause harm to animals. Unfortunately this can go too far and as in all groups, people interpret philosophy in different ways. I’ve seen people argue for feeding cats a vegan diet supplemented by taurine, because they can’t justify harming animals to feed them a meat diet. This is one situation where good intentions are harmful, because cats are obligate carnivores requiring meat and they cannot digest plant based taurine well. Going wrong here can severely harm a cat as taurine is critical for their neurological function. I consider that unethical. So for me it’s more about avoiding harm where possible, avoiding exploitation where possible, and doing my best not to harm other living beings just to live. For me, that doesn’t include hurting my cat with a bad diet. So it’s best not to paint all vegans in the same brush because it’s a pretty diverse group. Now, for the real reason I waded into this conversation… Agave and bats. I haven’t heard of this before, and I suspect a lot of vegans may be ignorant to it. When I googled, I only found stuff on it being used for tequila, which I don’t generally drink. Is agave syrup what they use to make tequila? I wondered if you had any articles on this or a source specifically on agave syrup that I can educate myself on. I don’t currently use it in my cooking as I don’t often bake but have used it in the past. If it’s genuinely harmful to bats, I think I can easily switch to maple syrup or another alternative to honey, so very keen to learn more. I love bats and have long considered them a favourite of mine so don’t want to harm them.
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Is it primarily based in the city/world/spaceship? of Kairos?
