i do think as well how sites are set up (or trending to be setup) nowadays really harms people's efforts to intergrate? a lot of sites are moving away from large overarching plotlines that are run by staff from what i've been seeing which reduces the amount of things that people can get incorporated with and instead shifts everything onto the members, making it a lot easier for cliques to form between friends who plot together. i think it's all well and good vowing to be better as individuals, but this kind of talk rarely seems to manifest anything on the actual sites.

i've been a serial flaker in the RPC lately bc I've found it very hard to make anything click, and I have tried to dm people and go out of my way to offer threads, plot with people - i think at this point it's genuinely a cultural thing that people in the RPC are less interested with going outside of their shells. i've also noticed that the culture is concerned with people forming their own little groups instead of plotting with people at large - so again, to me that says something about the site culture that has sprung up rather than individual people.

i think a lot more sites would do better with more active admins or introducing incentives to encourage people to plot with each other. it's something that i aim to do when i open my own site because as someone who's rp-running background comes from DMing, it's on the DM to make sure that people r involved and engaged with the storyline - i see no reason why this shouldn't be the case in rp?

i think that cliques can v easily be a force for good too, and i think it'd be better to disregard notions of cliquey-ness as much as possible. instead, why not try making friends and expanding your clique as it were? it's a lot easier to plot with people when you get to know them a bit better and find a common interest. i think the friendliness in general is missing from a lot of modern rp sites which is a shame because at the end of the day, it's a hobby where i'm writing my silly little ocs. i've managed to make some very good friends when i decided to finally get out of my shell and be a lot more open to making friends instead of assuming that nobody wants to speak to me.

tl;dr: i think there's a problem with rp culture at the moment, and i would like to change it. people can't see the forest for the trees.

bang.

there is a difference between a clique and a friend group.

if i join a site with friends and we've cooked up a little plot, i know we all very much are open to inviting others into it—doesn't matter if we reach out first, or someone expresses interest. to me, that's writing in a friend group.

but if we refuse to let anyone have fun in the playground with us, say it's Our Slide and you Stay Away you're not allowed to use it, then (to me) that's a clique.

every change in rp culture starts small and slow, and it starts with the self. it's not something that's ever going to be a sudden overnight switch. like sure, "this kind of talk rarely seems to manifest anything on the actual sites", but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to foster a healthier atmosphere because it's not happening quickly or everywhere all at once. i know i've had to look at my behaviour multiple times, reflect, and strive to do better. nobody's stagnant, or incapable of change; put out what you want to receive, etc. etc.

totally unrelated: i miss replying to plotters. every site i've joined that's had them, nobody utilised them and all plotting was done on discord. i need to info dump a paragraph at someone about characters.

this is just my observation...

we all rp for fun. at least most of us do :3

if a community isn't welcome, people are going to leave. the issue of 'ghosting' or 'cliques' is not the problem really.

of course we all have a duty to be friendly and welcoming as members. but as much as members can help contribute to the site culture and being apart of the community, it's up to the admins to curate their space and set the standards.

if the admins are going to antagonize their community, people can feel that. if the admins aren't present, people will leave. and if the admins don't manage their community and get rid of bad actors, the community suffers.

i dont want to be reductive, but it's really that simple. if the admins care about their members, plot with them, have empathy, then the cliques and ghosters will be a non issue— because the people who matter will stick around.

just my 2 cents in this convo.

Feel free to info dump paragraphs at me.

I will just pray for the best that people will understand the nonsense that is my experience I'm about to spew orz.

I'll admit it, I'm in a clique. Or I think I am. What I'm saying is I enjoy writing with friends. I'm more comfortable with them, I know them well, etc, and vice versa. Do I prefer writing with them? Of course. Am I exclusive? Absolutely not!

Now that said, no one in the "clique" is exclusive. We're all very inclusive and we like to drag people into our mess. Even the ones that are somewhat introverted appreciated the fact that we've approached them in some way. Even if it isn't related to roleplay, if someone pops into the chat/makes their presence known, you best believe I'll make it my mission to make sure they're seen/heard! We tone it down if the person is uncomfortable, but the end goal is to make sure the person is checked on and talked to. A friend of mine was very appreciative that I approached them and checked on them here and there when I first met them in a RP server. There were hundreds of members in there and they themselves were new, but I always made sure they were doing okay outside of RP.

I'll echo similar sentiments mentioned in the convo: it doesn't hurt to do small things that people will appreciate in rp. Heck, you don't necessarily have to plot and make it all rp. Just be inclusive. If people still ghost, then it is what is. Is all of that require? Eh, you don't have to if you don't want to! But, I do think being more inclusive in some way will go a long way.

But the problem is that a lot of people in the community have fun at their fellow players' expense. Unfortunately, it isn't unique to only the roleplay community, but to most online communities as a whole.

I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that admins set examples for a site, and that it is their responsibility. But it's not accurate to suggest that members who disrespect one another, or otherwise foster exclusivity amongst themselves is necessarily the fault of the admins. Like, as an example, it's easy for people to talk behind people's backs, or act really nice in DMs/discord server and then say another thing entirely in their private group chat. I was on a defunct multifandom rp some time ago--other members ostracized a single member because she wrote differently from them, but they never did it in the general channel. Neither she nor I were aware of the sentiment until those members successfully convinced the admins to throw her out, laughing at and ridiculing her as they did. I learned about the last part because I was the only one who reached out to her personally, after the fact.

We've all got stories like this, I'm sure of it. Some of us might have been victims of such behavior ourselves. And that's probably why this topic resonates with so many people.

In any case, that's what constitutes a clique. Like I said before, writing with a friend group =/= forming a clique--the latter of which is a group formed at the expense of other people. If people want to form a healthy community, then it is a collective responsibility, in which every single one of us takes part, admins and members included.

Emphasis on "if", of course. No one is inclined to do anything they don't want to do...but the community that forms as a result might not be completely inclusive.

Honestly, I miss plotters, too! I tried responding to a couple a long while ago, but it didn’t really work. It’s so much easier than jumping into someone else’s private messages, and it keeps plots public and easy for other people to build off of.

I like when plotting takes place on Discord, too, when it’s in channels accessible to new members who want to join/haven’t made a character yet, but I think initiatives that push people to take plotting and character discussion to private messages really have the potential to damage a public site. Not only is it hard to know who to reach out for to plot, and what sorts of relationships they’re looking for, it’s harder to gauge the current character relationships onsite re: something you’ve just jumped into. IMO, on Discord and on forums themselves, the more plotting/character development channels available to everyone, the better. It’s nice to learn about everyone’s characters when you’re new, and it gives you the chance to tell people about your own concept and let them come to you!

Selfishly, I think groups that drive people to take their plotting and chitchat somewhere more private have a tendency to encourage gossip, too. The more open a site is, on both staff’s part and the members’ part, the more people will feel comfortable talking things out instead of letting feelings fester. If I talk about something I’m frustrated with with one of my friends, and that becomes two, becomes three, becomes four, sometimes it’s not really a personal gripe, but something that just becomes mean. I’m really ashamed of some of the stuff I’ve said in the heat of the moment, because it’s something I so could’ve easily asked about three months earlier; a quick ‘hey, do you mind if we switch to this plot? I’m not super comfortable with the way things have gone’ could’ve solved so much, in such a happier and more enjoyable way. I think it’s so much easier to remember that what we say and do isn’t in a bubble when we’re all on the same page on a site and a server.

That’s mostly rambling, so feel free to glaze over some of that last part (I probably would, too) but ! More public plotting ! Public character talk channels where I can ask what everyone’s favorite food is! Or what they wear to bed! Or if they’re allergic to anything! It’s just so nice to be in the Know.

Exactly this. We are all very capable of creating negative environments, and it doesn't hurt to check ourselves and our friends to make sure we're not just spiraling and staying negative. Misery loves company, and a personal gripe really can just turn into something mean. I've been in a similar place myself--not just in the rpc, but really in the online world in general.

Agreed as well. This can be why some people decide to flake and ghost, or cite that they feel unwelcome. Sometimes, gen chat might seem really welcoming, but the real feelings people harbor about each other can be very distinctly felt by other members in question, even if they can't put a name to it or specify a reason. Site and server isn't always the bubble we think it is--our personal lives and social circles often overlap with our seemingly separate online communities, whether we want them to or not.

you make a great point honestly!! i can be nostalgic about plotters all i want, but i actually really like discord's forum channels specifically for plotting. they're so versatile, and it's always a treat when people pretty them up with ASCII art and stuff.

qotd bots/channels are perfect for this. i've had such a blast answering questions that feel like they should be mundane only to have it be an interesting point for character dev haha!

real 🙏 it's not a crime to say to your friends hey, that wasn't great. checking each other's behaviour is actually beneficial to everyone.

these are all great, and communication is key to everything…it usually is no matter what’s being talked about.

but…

I’ve also been accused of exclusivity or stealing plots and the like because they were started before even being on site or carried over from other sites, when in reality I’m not saying I won’t plot or thread with people. Usually the case and problem I run into where people feel excluded is ship related. Which then makes it just read into jealousy or something.

Maybe that’s just my experience idk. But the problems always seem to be with shipping.

And while I’m not saying other issues of exclusion don’t exist, we also have to keep in mind that since there are a lot of nd people in rp - there’s also a chance where there’s unfounded paranoia. Yes there are cases where people are not as nice in personal chats but I think sometimes the more anxious of us default to that being the case, perpetuating our own paranoia, where it may not necessarily be true.

If people are expected to welcome newcomers with open arms, then the newcomer should also be held to the expectation that they shouldn’t instantly expect to be treated poorly.

Now if everyone could channel this feel-good energy into a sweet site, I'm all game to join in.

...Hehe. Oh these are really cute

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bun `-----` `--`

edit: I have fucked up the bunny

I do think being online definitely contributes to this, too, though; I agree. I've witnessed similar issues in hobby circles (thought I think I've always been a little shyer... so the RPC is probably where I have the most experience of being caught in the middle. It's a lot harder to come to terms with your own words and actions than it is to look in at something)... in some ways, it's nice to be able to log off. It's nice to be able to think 'this environment I've built for myself isn't healthy. I'm going to try and move away to create something new*, so I can properly move on from the things people have said to hurt me, and reflect on the things I've said to other people on my own'. But it's so much easier to say something harsh, something cruel, something bitter from behind a screen, and behind closed doors. It's really easy, especially when someone's already done or said something to hurt your feelings, to pour fuel onto the fire. I would've felt insanely guilty even saying that to my cat, so why am I saying it about another human...?

I think the least we can do, when it comes to new members, even people we don't instantly mesh well with, is just to think about them as if they were you joining; help them catch up on what's going on, try to extend a hand to include them if there's a site plot or storyline in the works, maybe offer them a thread starter when their first character's finished, if you have the time on your plate. I do think, if you're joining a site, it's important to take the initiative to plot yourself, but an established community will almost always be a bit intimidating to someone without a 'guy on the inside'. Sometimes you have the chance to be That Guy. Be the guy!